In a meeting attended by 15,000 delegates on April 28th in Secunderabad, TRS President KCR threatened that there will be a civil war if
Going by the recent wave of separatist violence, KCR might not be making empty threats. Separatist thuggery will most likely resume post December, 2010. The real question is- how will the integrationists respond to these threats of violence?
The State Government’s pusillanimous handling of the recent spate of violence reinforced separatists’ view, that force is the best tool to achieve their jingoistic goals. Complement that with the leftist militant ideology that crept into the movement. Further complement that with the Central Government’s bowing to the pea-sized pressure brought on by KCR’s supposed indefinite hunger strike.
Government’s failure to stamp down violence has encouraged the separatists to a point where they are now making open threats of a civil war.
So, what is the integrationists’ response to the threats of violence going to be? Will the Samaikya Vaadhis at last wake up from their slumber and form a formidable organization that can stand up to the separatist might?
Throughout the current separatist movement, integrationist leaders have adopted a strategy of appeasement. Threats and acts of violence were mostly ignored or downplayed. Integrationists opined that standing up to the separatists will further incite them and will only exacerbate the situation.
If history is any guide, a bully cannot be reasoned. Gandhi’s philosophy of peace would not have worked against a fascist like Hitler.
In a civil society no man has a right to physically assault another man, unless such an assault is expressly granted by a court of law. A man cannot assault his foe. A husband cannot assault his wife. A parent cannot assault a child. A police officer cannot assault a criminal. A mob cannot lynch a reckless driver. A separatist cannot assault an integrationist and vice-versa.
Unprovoked physical assault is the most egregious crime a man can commit. Physical assault is not only a criminal offense, but it is the most immoral act a man can commit. If our creator were to maintain a list of man’s most immoral acts, physical assault on life will top that list.
However, there is another important aspect to the philosophy of life. While physical assault is immoral and criminal, we men also have a solemn responsibility to defend our lives. Life is a god given gift and self-defense is every man’s fundamental right.
What is self-defense? Where does government promised security to its citizens fit in this scheme of self-defense? Isn’t it the role of government to protect its citizens when they are under assault? If citizens take law into their hands, wouldn’t there be chaos all around?
One may claim that a society where people are defending themselves will quickly get out of hand. However, evidence shows otherwise. People have died by millions when they failed to defend themselves- whether it is the 6 million Jews that died during the second world war, or the 800,000 Tutsis that were killed in mere 100 days in Rwanda, or nearly a third of Cambodia’s population of 2.5 million killed by Khmer Rouge, or a conservative estimate of 20 million killed by the Communists in the Soviet Union.
I am not suggesting that we answer separatist violence with more violence. I am urging for a credible self-defense. When attacked, be prepared to defend yourself and that includes assaulting your attacker. Most civilized nations, including
In a self-defense case, Supreme Court Justice D K Jain ruled: “When an individual or his property is faced with a danger and immediate aid from state machinery is not readily available, that individual is entitled to protect himself and his property.”
If you assault a man without provocation- you are a criminal. On the other hand, if you defend yourself when assaulted- you are a model citizen and a moral human being.
It is time for people in communities to start thinking about how they would defend themselves. It is high time integrationists start responding to the separatist vitriol. It is way past time integrationists build an organization that can stand toe-to-toe against the hate-mongering separatists.
The separatist movement should be fought by the integrationists with conviction. Every false allegation made by the separatists must be answered. Every caustic remark must receive a fitting reply. Every separatist assault must be stopped.
If KCR, as promised, unleashes his bloodthirsty civil war machinery- a sneak preview of which we’ve already seen after December 9th- are the integrationists ready to defend themselves?
Save Andhra Pradesh!
Nalamotu Chakravarthy
http://www.facebook.com/people/@/226703252445
http://www.amazon.com/My-Telugu-Roots-Telangana-Bhasmasura/dp/0984238603/
Tags: Andhra, kcr, kosta, nizam, rayalaseema, separatism, Telangana
Dear Chakravarthy garu,
I was exactly about to bring to your notice of above mentioned recent developments and you have already said it!.
I can see a much dangerous situations arising in AP in near future by seeing the daily brainwashing in media by T separatists in the form of discussions in almost all channels.
1. I can see a very clear similarity between the Israel- Palestine issue and the present situation in AP. The fundamental similarity is hatred. We know how much hatred exist in Palestine -Israel region and how it turned out into a violent form.
2. The Israeli so called settlements in palestine region is being compared here with coastal people settlements in Nizam telangana region.
3. I personally know some incidents happened in our relatives houses in karimnagar , where young children talk with hatred about selfishness of some of the popular businessmen turned politicians from coastal areas, especially about one from viajayawada which is alarming!. This again has very similarity with Palestine issue.
4. Separatists already started calling coastal district people as oppressors. Again the similarity with Palestine issue. They already used words like liberation.
Unfortunately , few of the most popular political parties(which i was admiring till december 2009) are playing the political games displaying highest level of selfishness and unpardonable irresponsible behaviour.
Seems separatists are making moves taken from history , Israel-palestine and sri lanka-tamil issues. The fuel for their engine is hatred. And we need to hit the heart of their engine in a very very clever way in the most possible peaceful and logical form.
We cannot see the harmony and love between telugus falling apart at any cost in the hands of these few goons.
Time to discuss more in this brainstorming session.
Mr. Nalamotu,
In your posting i just saw a para that Reads " If KCR acts on his desire to see the Musi River turn red, there just won’t be enough cops to protect everyone. "
I would like to enlighten your readers that the Colonial Andhra greedy industrialists have already contaminated Musi River with sewage, industrial, and hospital waste. Musi River was once a source of Drinking Water to Twin Cities and used to Provide water for irrigational purpose.
All of you should be watching this video for Basic Knowledge on Musi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR3QRDYs3cg
Your Article also contained: "If you assault a man without provocation- you are a criminal. "
please change your opinion reading at this news item to understand the meaning of Provocation:
The High court compared this PSR Anjaneyulu to General Dyer. The AP Government proved that they would award anyone who uses their brutality on Telanganites be it Students, press, advocates, doctors, professors,….. or common public. Thereby a Point is proved that Colonial rule is prevelant in AP.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/5838229.cms
If this continues one day your Telugu readers would ask " Nalamotu Chakravarthy Rastunnada leka Nidrapotu Chakravarthy Rastunnada".
The Reason I say this is beacuase you are advocating the cause of "Shave Telangana" in the name of "Save Andhra Pradesh".
Chandra Mohan garu- I have a simple rule for the blog. You can write anything you want as long as the language is clean. I am letting this one through as an exceptioin. I am sure your goal is for people to understand your position. Therefore, iIf you would like to people to read your comments, please keep them clean.
Mr. Chakravarthy,
I firmly beleive that my language was diplomatic. I had not used words like " Bhasmasura", "Nizam" or targeted Honourable professors treating myself to be the only intellectual.
"I am confident that I can awaken those who are sleeping but its very tough to awaken those pretending to Sleep"
Well, if my diplomatic words hurts few, I would avoid them.
Coming over to a Healthy Discussion, here is one presented before your Team:
Could you read through this and express your views:
http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=60740
I would also like to see your Readers expressing their views.
After I see few of the opinions I would write in Detail My thoughts.
Thanks
Fair enough Chandra Mohan garu.
Mr. Chakravarthy,
I just don't understand your intention of writing this article. For me it looks like you are asking your buddies (i mean your "Telugu brethen" excluding Nizam Telanganites) to get ready to defend presuming a war (like indo-pak or indo-china etc), but to be honest with you, if Telangana is not given even after the Srikrishna committee favors, then the situation would be no different to what happened in the OU (attrocities committed by the AP Government, PSR Anjanelu & Co)…This was conveyed by KCR in his own style and he also clarifed the same later…..
The reason why i am writing you again is not to clarify what KCR said or will say in future, but to enlighten you when ever or where ever the protests / demonstrations / disapprovals in any democratic country happens these kind of things are bound to happen and could more specifically happen if Seemandhras what it that way and deny the democratic right of Telanganites….here is what i read from Jai Andhra Agitation in 1972 reported in Time Magazine on February 03, 1973.
“Andhras separatism has brought sporadic but growing violence and a total breakdown in local authority. The city of Vijayawada has been virtually closed down by a general strike since November. Electric power has been intermittently shut off. Schools and colleges are shuttered, hospitals are minimally staffed and judges have even refused to hold court. Scores of demonstrators have been killed and many more injured in clashes between police and protesters.”
Link as follows: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,906815-1,00.html
Just compare the movements of “Jai Andhra of 1972″ with “Jai Telangana of 1969 & 2009″ and now think which were/are peaceful and democratic. Indeed the later one (of course frequent strikes affected common man in Hyderabad and other cities but not for months like in Vijayawada in 1972-1973. In 2009 & 2010, the Telangas got frustated by the SA politician (LJ, KSR & YSJ & Co) acts against formation of Telangana and committed suicides or immolated themselves).
I have dedicated an entire chapter to Jai Andhra movement in my book. I stated clearly that Jai Andhra separatist movement was far more violent than the Jai Telangana movement of 1969-72.
wrong comparison! jai andhra in 1972 vs jai telangana in 1969.
seperate telangana in 2009 vs united AP in 2009
Chandra Mohan,
There is no point expressing your views on this blog if you have already not found out reading the comments by few of the bloggers and to some extent the author also. Here is why,
1. The Blogger's opposing telangana, only see telagana with KCR or TRS. They just dont want to understand that there is an emotional connect with people of telangana with regard to issue of statehood. There seem to live in denial that this sentiment does not exist in people of telangana at all.
2. These blogger's don't seem identify and respect view's of intellectual's of this area. They always think the intellectual (proffesor's, chief engineer's, beaurocrats, poets, novelist's etc) who talk about telangana issue are related to KCR and TRS, inspite of these people raising this issue much before KCR. I don't uunderstand, when why right they have to say "unity"
3. The author of this blog responses to clear case of discrimination, would be either neglect the topic or say fight diplomatically. You can see his response to blogger question on nagarjun sagar. The point will be come clear.
when Govt cannot given importance to pranahita over polavaram when such big movement was going on, do we think we can fight for our rights in this state. To think we can is a joke.
My point is people here are acting to be asleep. Hence there is no point to awaken them.
Vijay Garu and chandra mohan garu,
We all know that T sentiment is not only with KCR. I am from karimanagr and i know the ground realities. But also you guys have to accept that from a pocket size it spread enormously just becuase of TRS and TDF books. (I read them).
You guys have to accept atleast to a little extent that our T intellectuals distorted the facts left and right. Always inciting people on catchment area, showing 58000 jobs violations in girglani commission as occupation of andhra, are they not blatant lies? this argument can not move further unless you guys give a clear explanation of these two incidents.
1.Dont you people know that by giving such statments you guys are playing with fire? That is what happened.
2.Who is responsible for the death of either yadayya or saikumar , a B Tech student of OU? Is this not playing with fire? Is seemandhra people responsible for these deaths.
3.Dont you guys know that we need parliamnet to decide on telangana and we need to convice whole india first? Is india convinced with TRS lobbying or so called TRS truth books? Will T sentiment stop if 32.5 TMC water of Nagarjuna sagar left canal issue at the tail end is solved?
4.Who decides the national project status. for polavaram? Seemandhra politicians or govt of india? Please do not say, if T was separated devadula would have also got a national project status. I can subdivide telangana and demand national project for each district!. Even after separation
5.what is the guarantee that you guys will not keep complaining that seemandhra lobby in delhi is a hurdle for future projects of telangana state? Why this hatred? …mana bangaram manchidena?
It is unfortunate that educated people all dyeing in the name of Telangana. If KCR really wants Telangana let him sacrifice himself. He feels sacrificing liquor is the greatest thing he can do for the Telangana people. Before forming of TRS what was the position of KCR? He was just an MLA or ex-minister with may be 10 lacks to his account. Now he owns major fleet of ships in India. He owns so much properly in Gujarat. If he is true believer in Telangana he should be investing in remote places like Adilabad. Where was Nizamabad, khammam before people from coast Andhra came and started the forming and made them fertile lands? By the way I am part rayalaseema part telangana, so has nothing to do with coastal Andhra. But fact is a fact. This agitation is not for the people or by the people of Telangana, it is for the politicians and by the politicians of Telangana. Telangana people want peace and Andhra Pradesh wants peace. Andhra Pradesh was one of the most progressive states in India (thanks to CBN and YSR), now the multination are trying to swift to either Karnataka or Tamil Nadu. Is it conspiracy of Veerappa Moily (Karnataka) or Chidambaram (Tamil Nadu) for Dec 9th statement by Chidambaram? You are educated think once…………..
Mera Bharath Mahan - I am Indian first then Andhra Pradesh second. There is no third here.
Unfortunately, there are two sides to this coin of the High Court calling PSR Anjaneyulu as General Dyer. Just as PSR Anjaneyulu was targeted because he is from Coastal AP, the High Court in this case was a lone Justice Narasimha Reddy, a hard core supporter of Telengana. It was no coincidence that all the cases related to the T agitation were sent to his desk. While comparing PSR Anajneylu to General Dyer, Sri Narasimha Reddy made several comments not befitting the position of a High Court Justice. In the 62+ years of Indian Independence, there have been several police brutalities but this particular incident reminded Justice Narasimha Reddy about General Dyer.
I live close to the OU and Justice Narasimha Reddy's house. I am a witness to several incitings of students by the TRS and Congress leaders in Tagore Auditorium. I am a witness to several meetings in the last 8 years where the TRS and Congress leaders brainwashed the students and employees. Students were promised lakhs of jobs and jobs for every one. Employess were promised 4 to 5 promotions. All this would be realized as soon as a separate state is formed. No one asked how and no one answered how. The kind of hatred these people created in the minds of their people towards their own brotheren is unbelievable.
Just as some one commented in this blog, history has shown that no nation, no group and no individual prospered on the basis of hatred. This hatred turns even intellectuals into criminals as shown in the recent case of Shahzad and the doctor turned terrorist in UK who tried to blow up an airport.
Some one, in this blog, wrote that the United AP is a catastrophic failure. Is that person trying to kill his own conscience to believe a blatant lie being repeatedly told? There have been tonnes of information that disprove these theories. If one takes a cursory look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_by_GDP, one would understand that AP is doing pretty well at 4th position. United AP is not a failure but a great success story among the states. In the last 53+ years, we have beaten West Bengal in education (West Bengal was the beacon of light in education in 1947), Bihar (rich in natural resources) and not far behind Tamil Nadu.
The next question is AP is great but Telengana fell behind. Maharashta is numero uno with almost twice the GDP of AP. What about Vidharbha?
Dear Readers,
Look at these videos:
Horrible truth behind Hyd pollution Investigative Report Part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGoU8Yq_yIw
Horrible truth behind Hyd pollution Investigative Report Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKb0Oqa1-IQ&feature=channel
Dear Chandra Mohan,
It means that you are clearly encouraging the violence that erupted just because of KCR in a peaceful state like AP in the name of Telangana movement. It is he who is shaving Telanagana not Mr. Chakravarthy. Try to learn from neighbour states and see how they are united and how they are grabbing the opportunities for the development of their state but we are going backwards in development in the name of seperate state movement and helping some of selfish goons like KCR and his family to fill their pockets. Really shame on you,
Mr Chakravarthy (you dont deserve to addresed Garu)
If politicians words were to be taken seriously, then telangana would have been a state by now. Bt writing this blog you have shown your affiliation to one group of politicians. Your words "Throughout the current separatist movement, integrationist leaders have adopted a strategy of appeasement"
These were same leaders who were responsible for all the current siutuation, They promised telangana to the people in their manifesto's, when asked by the Centre they said they have no problem. No you are taking sides with these politicians. The so called AP NRI website is run by one community, it is evident by reading their hilarious articles.
If your motive is keep telugu people united, then this post was not required. This post will only incite people of telangana more. I personal belief is there will be no civil war, even KCR knows that. so this talk all silly.
Finally if there civial war, as you presume, what integrationist (i thought it was samkiyavadis) will do?.They can't do anything, beacause, the notion of united andhra is not emotive at all. On the other hand telanagna is emotive issue and many people are ready to die for it. As they say in war the one who is ready to die, will always be victorious.
If possible, pass on my compliments to AP NRI folks, reading some of the articles on there websites makes you laugh more than a bramhanandham comedy peice. (Jokers at the core)
PS: You using the word integrationist, seems to show that you have decided that telangana will be formed. (the question of integration does not arise when there is no division). You might have inside information on this from your affliations with lagadapati Rajagopal. Because you too now seem to have become desparte like him.
By saying 'u dont deserved gaaru', everyone knows here that its you who lost the respect but not he. Chakravarthy gaaru took all the pain in writing this blog with proofs, documents, scanned copies of news papers, reports and everything. Each time some nonsense guy comes and ask him for more proofs as if he is the sole point of contact for all the Andhra pradesh related info. and you ppl never give any official links but of telangana.org.
if you are talking about the politicians, TRS party agreed on second SRC. why the hell ur politicians creating all this violense now?
>> telanagna is emotive issue and many people are ready to die for it.
sorry for asking this? r u ready?
I couldn't understand your argument. on one hand u r saying politicians words are not taken so seriously. is this statement have any exceptions? like whenever KCR says that there was so much damage done to telangana then y you ppl become so emotional (read as hysterical)? y u take those words seriously? y to take the words of seemandhra politicians so seriously about their promises on telangana?
can't understand that is telangana voters are such fools that they have given more majority to seemandhra party (TDP) and given only 10 seats for the so called udhyama party, whose soul and breath is telangana?
again the same qn. are they such fools, that in 2008 by-elections they have given more seats to TDP (which hasn't taken the slogan of telangana then)?
and again.. why they have voted for MIM 7 seats which hasn't said a single word about telangana?
ofcourse, u do not have answers that y TRS didnt participated in the baldia elections.
ppl here are far more smarter than you Mr. Sampath.
@Satya
No the statement has no exceptions. KCR only agenda is to achieve telangana. He has never go back on that. To be fair, for that he has resigned Union cabinet post, 7 TRS ministers resigned from state cabinet. And wen he tries go back on his fast, you know wat happened. So for us there are no exceptions.But TDP leaders of TDP and congress have blatantly gone back on their word.
Election Results!!
Before i explain about 2006, 2008, 2009 and Hyd municipal elections, First, The elections lets atalk of 2004. The results of 2004 clearly indicate the whole state of AP was formation telangana (this if i take your logic of analyzing an election) The only samikya andhra party was destroyed in seemandhra in 2004.
2006: the bye election for karimnagar lok sabha seat in TRS won by massive 2 lakhs majority, this after people being extremely unhappy (mark these words) with KCR. That result showed the Telanagana won not TRS or KCR. These were the words of YSR after that elections.
2008: Satya first get your number correct. TRS won maximum seats in the 2008 bye elections. not TDP. TDP got mere 2 seats. TRS had better vote percentage compared to congress and TDP. The point to be noted here although TDP stand was united andhra, they did not raise the issue at all in these elections. Congress went with telangana plank. they even printed poster "telanagana congress thone sadhiyam"
2009: Chiranjeevi and PRP is main reason here. You chiranjeevi is bigger in telanagana compared to any actors in tollywood. People in seema and andhra equally watch balakrishna JNTR movies compared chiranjeevi. But in telangana they are no match at all. So wen chiranjeevi took the stand Samajika telangana, he got more percentages of votes as result of congress won. Againb all poplitical parties barring CPM tool telangana stand here. That was truth.
MIM: If you know MIM gets 100% of votes from one religion. There only plank is we are against BJP. Infact that is MIM main problem with formation of telangana,the fear the BJP will gain ground.
Muslims in districts of telnagana do not vote for MIM.
Hyd municipal elections: Although TRS is not strong in hyderabad, at that time KCR was actually mobilizing support for his hunger strike. When all media and political parties were busy with elections, KCR visited univerties of osmania and Kakatiya to talk to students and explain them the need for telangana. Some TRS leaders at that time were raising issues of corpoarte kabza lands. So the reason not to stand in Hyd municipal elections was clear ploy. And boy didn,t it work?
One suggestion. KCR is not telangana and telangana is not KCR.
People of telangana have always voted for telangana issue and not TRS and KCR. Any party raising Unified andhra lost in telangana. That is fact.
@Sampath,
everytime u r coming up with contradictory statements.
1) KCR only agenda is to achieve telangana. He has never go back on that. To be fair, for that he has resigned Union cabinet post, 7 TRS ministers resigned from state cabinet.
2) KCR is not telangana and telangana is not KCR.
by this what i can get is people of telangana had more belief in TDP and chandrababu (whose party never said they will agitate for telangana but only support the cause). but they didnt believed an udyama party who made so many sacrifice for telangana.. is that what you mean?
and again, people had belief in congress, which already betrayed for 5 years and even a 2yr kid knows that as long as YSR is there, it is impossible for congress to give telangana. but still they have chosen congress over BJP which already has given 3 states and promised telangana in 100 days?
common dude, u know the truth. People of telangana never bothered it as a major issue that changes their lives. political parties do not want to waste any opportunity fearing there may be a political loss or opponents will exploit it, but that doesn't mean all those things are important to each and every citizen.
It shows one's immaturity if they say attribute 2004 elections to telangana. the soul credit goes to YSR who successfully captured the anti incumbancy of TDP govt, which already ruled the state for 10 yrs. Also the continues drought helped the sittuation towards congress. sops like free power, paavala vaddi which attracted farmers and women. and everyone know that teachers and other govt. employees were against the babu govt.. so dont use words like whole AP is supported telangana.
you are using the term betrayal every now and then. what the telangana people has done to those 12 TRS MLAs who after winning the elections alligned with congress. are there any agitations that time? NO. because nobody concerns about telangana and so they didnt even mind it much.
in 2008 by-elections TRS went with telangana sentiment, congress on development and TDP on corruption agenda. pls dont try toattribute ur own conclusions to the actual thinks.
i have still a doubt. are people of telangana are in such a confused mind that they dont know whom to vote to acheive their 50 yr old dream, even though the logic is simple, that get all 119 assembly and 14 loksabha seats to TRS and allow it to demand whatever they want.
but the answer is NO. the people are never confused. and T sentiment is not an issue for them to make a decision while voting.
in 2009 chiranjeevi is the main reason?????????
man.. which part of the world you are living? and what are these statements?
" People in seema and andhra equally watch balakrishna JNTR movies compared chiranjeevi. But in telangana they are no match at all. "
everyone know and even many surveys clearly indicated that chiranjeevi will not have an impact in Telangana. Infact, Devender Gowd lost badly by joining in PRP.
what is this watching movies etc.. which doesnt constittute an argument. chiranjeevi lost himself in palakollu, where he has the biggest fan following and caste support.
KCR visited universities? when? where?
>> People of telangana have always voted for telangana issue and not TRS and KCR. Any party raising Unified andhra lost in telangana.
and so a party which promised telangana in 100 days too lost badly. A party's whose soul and breath is telangana also seen the worst mandate. the party chief, as u said whose single point agend is telangana hardly got thru with 15000 votes.
They have voted for a party which has betrayed jfor 5 yrs before the elections. they have voted for a party under seemandhra leadership which never said they will fight for telangana.
btw.. in 2006 by-elections KCR successfully polarized with his hate vendetta and got the edge. not because of T sentiment.
KCR winning in karimnagar, YSR winning in pulivendula, CBN winning in kuppam could never be a people's mandate against a particular cause.
and lastly if u r taking my logic, then TRS declined elections after election. so by 2009 election TRS doesnt have a representation in 4 districts of telangana. so y do they need telangana now?
@ Satya
If you are arguing that telangana sentiment does not exist and is not an emotive issue for telangana people, forget it. You will never get it. No point indiscussing with you.
Chiranjeevi and his party got votes and lots of them but not seats. There vote share in AP was 14%. What this means is he hit the votes of TDP, TRS. About 25 seats won by congress in AP were won by margin of less than 2000 votes. Now I hope u understand my point. If you still don't get it. I can't help it.
My point is let a party come with United Andhra agenda in telangana, will it win? I will bet u they will not even a seat.
Please dont come up with nonsensical arguments to rectify your wrong facts in earler arguments.
@ I will bet u they will not even a seat.
what about TDP winning 7 seats in 2004? In any of my comments, i have never said there is no T sentiment. but the only thing I am stressing is Telangana is not a 1st priority to Telangana people is what my point. only when some blood thrursty KCR raises the issue and flame it, that too with an act of polarizing the people with all his wrong data and comparisions then only people became prey to it.
in 2009 they have voted clearly for YSR government and his welfare schemes ( corrupt or not keep those aside). I am again and again saying it do not attribute these to telangana, because if it is their 1st priority they will obviously choose BJP or TRS whose single point agenda is Telangana as u said.
in 2004 though congress won so many seats then also the vote % is very low between TDP and Congress. so as per your comment, can i simply say there are equal no. of voters who voted against the telangana? but I wont tell that. because again the basic thing is ppl didnt made their choice in view of telangana.
if u r saying that people voted for chiranjeevi because they watch his movies and all the stuff, then is it mean that telangana issue is low priority for them than chiranjeevi? otherwise, how can they even think that chiranjeevi can bring telangana? with his virtual 4th front? NO WAY. The thing is people never voted on the lines of telangana in 2009 too.
The bottomline is if u say no to telangana other parties may corner u and u may loose votes, but that doesnt mean if u say yes to telangana people will vote for u.
@sampath,
Wake up smell the coffee. KCR only agenda is to get Telangana? what a satement from you. KCR's only agenda is not to get Telangana. If Telangana forms he has no money pouring from people like you. so why does he wants to stop the income. Telangana issue is like "bangaru bathu" for KCR. He is not going to kill it. he will continue then his daughter, son and nephew will continue. I thought you are well educated and can see through these things.
AP will never be divided by the blood thirtsy KCR & his evil gang. Go Samaikya Andhra. Go Hyderabad
Mr Sampath,
Again the same shoutings and abusals. I dont get you people .You guys are spoiling the
complete reputation of Telanagana people. And you support the buffons of TDF , who are
struggling with some sort of "identity crisis syndrome". They some how lost the ability to
walk with the mainstreme telangana people. I mean my family is from karimnagar district,
several of my friends are from telanagana…we dont have any problem in AP except few
incidents of mocking our accent. I mean if you speak Hyderabadi hindi in UP , i dont have to
say what response you would get. for that do u want to get separated from india!!? You guys
have to see a psychiatrist and explain them your problem , even though several of you guys
are in medical profession!! I can quote several jokes you share in the form of charcha!
Coming back to your point, your own argument contradicts your statement. You say that u
dont belive political parties if they say something. so u think civil war will not happen.
but u believe TRS in their promises that they would get you telanagana. you might say
..oohhh this is an udyamam party, . Means they do what they say. Means civil war is a
possibility!!…In anyway…possibilities are evident.
Please understand that…if TRS was able to convince telangana, coastal and seema people and
rest of india, WITHOUT ABUSING , THREATENING, without displaying uncivilized behaviour…i
am very very sure you guys would have reached your target , by this time. But you chose the
completely wrong path.
Lastly, you said no body can do anything if civil war comes!…India has a formidable
Military might. It wont hesitate to take a surgical offensive action on TRS camps in
telangana and liberate telanagana from this mess, EXACTLY LIKE IN 1948.
Thanks
Chandra,
small clarification, I have not abused anyone in my comment. If you think all calling AP NRI folks as jokers, then you need to understand the meaning of word "Abuse".
"Lastly, you said no body can do anything if civil war comes!…India has a formidable
Military might. It wont hesitate to take a surgical offensive action on TRS camps in
telangana and liberate telanagana from this mess, EXACTLY LIKE IN 1948."
Again, i have never said no one can do anything when civil war comes, I was only answering author's question.
That statement of your's shows how restless and desperate you have become like the author of this blog. Now you can decide who needs to visit a doctor. I wish for your speedy recovery.
>> I have not abused anyone in my comment.
so what you mean by saying 'you dont deserved to be addressed gaaru" ? i you need to say to a person who didn't talk anything personal to you? or shall I assume is this what your telangana samskruthi? like how kcr used to say all the filthy words are part of telangana sanskruti? Hope you deffer to it.
enough, Now people are coming to know the truth, and myths, lies are getting shattered.
>> Finally if there civial war, as you presume, what integrationist (i thought it was samkiyavadis) will do?.They can't do anything,
can you explain this("Again, i have never said no one can do anything when civil war comes) in view of your above comment?
if you know the facts, just put here and enlighten us how a seperate state ensures 'development', self respect by any examples or blue print.
Hi Nalumotu garu,
A denunciation of the unciviized language of separatists backed with acts of violence against the citizens should come from the state and from the law. The dimwit chidambaram who made a midnight announcement indicating an intent to divide a state of 10 crore people withmore than a thousand year history just because of his lack of confidence in controllling a mob of student violence is silent now. The courts are silent and the central government is silent and so is manmohan. My question is why ? does Delhi treat Telugu people with contempt ?
Or should we conclude India is a barbaric country where muscle on the street is more important than the letter of the law?…it does appear to be so when you examine the silence from the cowardly t separatist bullies against MIM which said No to SKC.
I do not believe in violence against one's own people but let the t separatist … know that this is a game two people can play. The properties of telangana industrialists (there are many) , their studios and their properties are not invisible in Hyderabad. This entire moment is articulated by feudal t landlords which is sought to be hijacked by maoists for their purpose. The landlords thing they can use this maoists as useful … where they will use them in the hope acheiving their power and if they do later use state machinery to suppress them …it is a dangerous game not to mention tragic and unneccesarry.
@Satya
1. My intention of writing that this author does not deserve to be called garu because, if his true intention is in Unity of telugu people, he would have written this particular post. He cant be another politician. As this post was like a politician, i have written that he does not deserve the respect of Garu. I will stick this point.
2. The author has used a very selective sample for his analysis, and it has been prooven in this blog that when issues of discrimination he does not answer, Like the issue someone raised on Nagarjun sagar, reducing the capacity left bank canal by 44 TMC and increasing the right bank canal, He convienietly ignores facts to proove his point. If he uses selective sample for analysis, so did some author's for telangana in their analysis.
3.Yes, I am ready to die for telangana (it does not mean I am going kill myself or kill others), It means, Today it might be KCR, Tomorrow it will be Sampath, and later it will someone else. mark my words. This fight will not stop untill telangana is formed.
4. My intention of saying samikyavadi can't to anything is to say that united andhra pradesh is not an emotive issue. Any issue which is not emotive does not invoke big response.
In my next comment i will tell how smaller states helps development.
what i got is u ppl will never think sensibly. just stick to one point. either you should ignore whatever politicians say or u take them seriously. what is your choice? do not make them as per ur convinience.
there is not a single person died for telangana cause from 2001 to 2009 november. then suddenly the toll raises to 300+ (??). so, how come suddenly this happend?
its not nallomothu who is talking like politican. its you, by saying everyone is ready to die for telangana.. its emotional, the otherside not emotional etc.. y u need to say all these things, as on onehand u r alleging others for speaking like politician.
to ur 3rd point, again u hav given a wrong answer for the sake of proving something. Please dont make such emotional statements. sorry for asking this again.
is yadaiah's emotional level is lesserthan srikantha chari? is sampath's emotional level is even lesser than yadaiah or kcr? there are still 90% people who are going to do their daily routine without minding about telangana. they are not coming into streets and setting ablaze or they are not talking like we will die for it. ppl like you became prey for the politicians and echoing their words.
4) so from my above lines how can you say that ppl in telangana are emotive or a life and death issue? there are countries where ppl live in so pitiable, miserable and tyrannical conditions than of telangana people. even in those places also there are no civil wars. telangana ppl are living a far more better conditions. so how can justify a civil war can occur?
5) may be united andhra is not as emotive as seperatism. but when it turns into physical assault then automatically another emotive issue comes. that is anti telangana.
i suggest u to choose ur words and avoid statements like politicians. no offense
@ Satya,
I have never ever said, there will be civil war, read my first comment. It is the author of this blog who assumed there is going to be a civil war. Infact in his speech KCR clearly clarified wat he means by civil war. He never said people will kill earch other. The author like the media assumed.
Again, if you are telling me that telangana sentiment does not exist in telangana people. You dont get it. You will never get the point. So there is no point discussing here.
@ Satya
My case of separate state of telangana other than most important emotional aspect of people are
1. Smaller states have shown an increase in the per-capita income of people (Although i feel this is not right indicator of prosperity of people, but is an economic indicator) like Jharkand, Chattisgarh, Uttaranchal.
Percapita Income (2006-07)
Uttaranchal- 27, 800, UP- 14663
Jharkand- 20,177, Bihar- 10,570
Chattisgarh-29,000, MP- 18571
Clearly shows that smaller states work. I have not witten anything abt, Punjab, Gujrat or Haryana here. Point is AP cannot be compared to these states.
2. Everyone should understand and know for fact that AP is very poor state when it comes to development, contrary to a popular popular notion put forth by Chandrababu and YSR. AP cannot be compared to TN, Karnataka instead it should be comapred with MP, Bihar and UP and to an extent WB.
This clearly shows AP as a state does not work. and to this add regional fights, caste politics we have never worked. If in 60 years cannot unite people, its foolish to think things will improove in future.
Now answer this, Do we want be united and be compared to UP, Bihar's and MP of this country? Do we want to keep fighting throw away foriegn investments?
Hence its good for all people if AP is divided into 2, 3 or maybe 4 states. nothing wrong. This will not extinct telugu race.
Now coming to a question of Self Respect!! You people need to understand the word self respect.
1, How can all political parties barring one promise something and go back on their word. You can play with anything not with emotions and sentiment of people.
2. YSR, after polling is completed in telangana, can he go bullshit wat he did in nandhyal. I have no problem if u are against division. But, you can't use this sentiment so blatantly for votes. This hurts self respect. Did any o your seemaandhra leaders condemn this, did any of you condemn this? How can u now all say no? In Telangana state, we (meaning voters) be treated to such betrayal.
This is why self-respect notion has come in. To be fair to KCR, he also started self -respect notion after 10th December, when politicians started going back on their words.
If you want links, here are some good articles. These are respected people more and know more abt indian economy than the author of this blog. And they are not telangana people to have the emotional attachment.
http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/folk-theorem/entry/why-telangana-makes-sense
http://www.livemint.com/2008/01/21174558/Jharkhand-and-Orissa-register.html
>> Hence its good for all people if AP is divided into 2, 3 or maybe 4 states. nothing wrong. This will not extinct telugu race.
I didnt saw someone thinking such dangerously.
>> YSR, after polling is completed in telangana, can he go bullshit wat he did in nandhyal. I have no problem if u are against division. But, you can't use this sentiment so blatantly for votes. This hurts self respect.
1st tell me where is the sentiment? answer my other qn why people rejected TRS and choosen seemandhra party? its politicians who can create and utlize the sentiments very effectively and make others fall into the game.
tell me y KCR has an alliance with CPM which is an united AP agenda? y kcr cheated TDP and supported BJP even before announcing the results?
y ppl voted for congress and YSR again even when they have experienced the betrayal already. also this time sonia never promised anything about telangana. y ppl voted for congress, when BJP promised they will give telangana in 100 days. also this time BJPdoesnt hav an alliance with TDP so there wont be any problem in passing the bill too. The bitter truth is telangana state is on least priority for telangana people. that is why there is not a single instance of dissent from telangana region when YSR become the CM after the elections.
I will ask in the same way you people ask chakravarthy gaaru for the proofs.
1) do you have proofs for the above data?
2) can you publish here the district level percapita data of AP so that we will know which region has more per capita income?
3) can you please give the per capita income of those states by people living in public sector and private sector?
4) what is the revenue of those states u mentioned? if those states can survive and doing great leaving their capital why you people are insisting for hyderabad?
5) so you want to be like jharkhand where 7 CMs changed in 9 years?
6) AP is poor state when it comes to development? oh.. so y many people from all over the world (as KCR says) comes to this poor state? btw.. if AP is poorer, is it the entire AP or only telanagana? atleast now u might agree there is no descrimination.
7) can u tell me one instance of a politician of telangana who lost is self respect in seemandhra region while he was ona tour/campaign or anytime else?
if ppl really feel that telangana is their self respect issue, then they should have shown their dissent when congrss announced ysr as their CM for the second time. please dont bring a new buzz word all the time in connection with telangana when the old one didnt work.
@Satya
Here are my answers to some of your questions.
Q1 to 3. I have given 2 links from two best sources in India (economic times and Live Mint) they are not eenadu or sakshi or Raj news to be biased towards a part or region. According to me Percapita income is not right indicator of prosperity. But that an economic indicator widely used.
4. On hyderabad, i have never written anything. To the contrary for notion that telangana cant sustain without hyderabad, it's the other way, Hyderabad cant sustain telangana.Here is why
Hyderabad drking water supply comes from singur originally conceived for districts of Nizamabad and Medak. On wat grounds krishna river wat will be diverted to hyderabad if its not a part of telangana.On wat grounds krishna river wat will be diverted to hyderabad if its not a part of telangana.So do you think people of hyderabad will be paying 5 times more money for water and electricity then they paying now, or when it is capital of telangana. Some of rich seemaandhra people can afford it, but wat about other 95% of hyderabad population? Hyderabad does not work without telangana.
Although i believe Hyderabad will be capital of telangana, i do beleive the transition needs to be smooth and fair. Untill a new capital with all facilities is developed for seemandhra, hyderabad would be contributing its revenues to other regions. (Actually this a boon to all people living in seemandhra, with new capital attached economic acitivity, they are ones to reep huge benefits.)
5) Inspite of having the most corrupt CM, inspite of having highly volatile political environment, Jharkaand is growing, it's attracting investments and the life of people in states seems to be improving. So answering your questions, If there is clear development , i would not mind 10 chief minister in 7 years. (Like AP wat is the point in having one CM with no development)
6 Many people from India come and stay in Hyderabad not AP. The point is about 50 times the people that come and stay here in hyderabad, that many people leave our states and go to mumbai, gulf countries. Why? Most of these people are from telangana districts.
7. Asking this question you show your lack of knowledge here. D Srinivas, the APCC cheif was asked to go back in Tirupathi. So if an APPCCV chief is asked to go back, then leave case of other politicians. This BTW is not about politicians. This is about people, but because you have asked i have answered the question.
Offcourse people have shown dissent. There were protests by some unions in warangal and karimnagar districts when YSR took oath the second time. They were not given importance by media because no major politician was involved in the protest. please know the fact before you ask questions.
1) man, i am u r not joking. U have given the blog link of economic times but not the article of economic times. I will give the Rajdeep sardesai blog link,and will you put this to an end?
))))
u have not given the answer to my second qn. and just clubbed all three. provide per capita revenue of andhra pradesh district wise. and let us see how great the descrimination is
2) hyderabad cant sustain without telangana? so is that why all telangana leaders are concerned about hyderabad? I think i no need to go to andhra NRI site to read the hilarious articles. btw.. u ppl say water allocation is as per tribunal, so why dont hyderabad gets its share as drinking water is the highest priority of all? anyway, we have enough tanks here and may build few more if that is the case. u dont worry
5) I dont know why so many people from bihar & jharkhand come to mumbai despite enjoying their high growth. do u mean the life of telanganites is worse than those of jharkhand, bihar, chattisgarh??? AP is having one with no development? hmm.. I think i will put this to an end without troubling u much.
6) about 50 times? could you provide ur proofs ? even telanganites are afford to go to gulf, and many of seemandhra people cant even do that. they go to bombay, hyderabad and living miserably.
7) D. srinivas lost self respect? and u guys can attack everybody like rajagopal, even on Chandra babu, and u asked kapil sibal to go back. attacked chiranjeevi, stick pamphlets in sangareddy asking BSNL employees from seemandhra to go back. so do u think all these doesnt have self respect?
how many such incidents to telangana leaders in andhra region?
>> There were protests by some unions in warangal and karimnagar districts when YSR took oath the second time. They were not given importance by media because no major politician was involved in the protest. please know the fact before you ask questions.
and so there are protests in some part of seemandhra when congress, TDP supported seperate telangana before elections. they were not shown in media
* I am done *
@ Satya,
You asked a direct question abt did nay telangana politicians were mis treated in seema andhra. I have answered. If you want to bring in all other things to hide you mistake, then you can,
BTW, dont compare lagadapati to DS. Lagadapati behaviour and DS behaviour in this issue is totally different. I am sure you can't get wat is the difference.
>> You asked a direct question abt did nay telangana politicians were mis treated in seema andhra. I have answered. If you want to bring in all other things to hide you mistake, then you can,
see, there can be one corner incident that too when the sittuation is high voltage. I hav asked u if just once, a small agitation make u feel that politicians lost self respect, how many times it happend to seemandhra politicians and people?
will u agree, that they hav lost their self respect in their own capital city? Agree or not.. jst answer to that
I hav not compared DS to lagadapati. I have compared the DS incident to CBN, chiranjeevi aswell.
my question on self respect is telangana leaders enjoyed their power in all major portfolios and now coming up with the arguments that they do not hav self respect. what self respect they lost when they are in power? and ur answer is DS incident. if u feel u hav given a justifiable answer i will leave it to u.
@Satya
You were talking of telangana samskiri, I do not want to go into this topic, but if KCR words show telangana samskriti, then does the blatant betrayal of your politicians show andhra samskriti. Does antics of rajagopal show andhra smskriti? I don't think so!! Now wat is telangana samkriti is left to ur reasoning.
The andhra politicians betrayed their own ppl by saying telangana wont come and it is just for political advantage.
Chakravarthy garu,
By now, many leaders/intellectuals and some common people like me in costa/seema have realised that telangana was not discriminated and infact it was given more importance than costa/seema.
Since telangana was very backward in 1956 after 200 years of demonic/attrocious rule of nizam, it was given more importance in education, industrialization, irrigation and other development sectors.
But I think, great number of people even in costa/seema still, don't know this truth.
They are actually feeling bad of the wild accusations and blame game and hatred spread by the telangana state extremists. This has decreased the morale of the common people in seema/costa even though good number of people have done relentless research and bursted all the lies and false propaganda by these telangana state extremists.
So I think, we shud conduct awareness sessions/meetings across costa/seema/hyderabad and if possible in telangana also so that they know the real truth about how telangana was in 1956 and how much development in telangana took place in various arenas. They shud augment their standpoint with the statictical proofs just like you have done in your book.
I am sure people will be convinced and will regain confidence, strength and morale to fight with the telangana extremists and false accusations and wild claims.
Even those costa/seema educated professionals who chose to be remain quiet as they are not sure of what really happened and who has exploited who, will have the courage/confidence/strength/morale/gumption to stand up for this cause of fighting the extremists once they are educated about the development done in telangana since the last 56 years.
Once the people's mind is cleared of these doubts and their heart is cleared of this guilt which the extremists have induced with their false propaganda, they will be able to automatically put up a tough fight against the extremists in need of the hour, even in the case of any stupid civil war threats.
Once the people's mind is cleared of these doubts and their heart is cleared of this guilt, they will have the morale and clear intention to organize and protect themselves against these telangana extremists.
I shud thank you for all your efforts to refute the false accusations and wild claims propagated by the telangana extremists as you provided confidence for so many people that nothing went to so much wrong in united AP esp due to discrimination.
Infact, when I did research myself, I found that telangana got much more than it's fair share. Seema was neglected grossly in all areas of development as it had less lobbying power and no efective agreements to protect it's interests.
And costa was primarily an agricultural region with few agro based industries in 1940's and is still in the same condition. No significant growth. No industrilization nothing. People who don't have lands have to migrate to other areas for livelihood and also be called as settlers.
So what I think is, the only way to prepare the people to fight against the extremists in need of hour is to first educate them, give them confidence, strength and raise their morale and then encourage them to organize and protect themselves.
So we shud conduct meetings/seminars/sessions across AP for the remaining 6 months.
And I am not sure why no social organizations, leaders, other associations, political parties are even putting some effort in that direction to educate the people about the development done in telangana.
Why government is behaving as if it has nothing to do about all this. It shud release true data and statistics no matter who accept it.
If we observe carefully, the extremists have propagated their false propaganda and hatred thru similar means over the last many months.
P.S.:
By saying telangana extremists, I am referring to only those believe and propagate false propoganda, hatred and wild accusations.
I am still very confident that a good number of telangana brothers do not believe and propagate these false propoganda, hatred and wild accusations.
This to all my Seemaandhra Brothers,
Many of you people might think I writing that this author of this blog does not deserved to be called Garu. I have always said this author hides some important historical events in put forth his point. This kind of attitude is attributed to politicians of debates. Here is why i say this.
This author has written a post in this blog titled "Telangana State Demand is not fifty year old" In the context of this blog the most important event is Sri Burugulla Ramakrishna Rao letter to then All India Congress President. This letter holds a lot of significance because he was the then CM of hyderabad state. The beauty of this letter is the clarity with which he articulates the feelings of telangana people, which clearly prooves that formation of Visalandhra was disaster waiting to happen. And it has been a total disaster. For person who claims to have done a lot of history, the author of the blog should have known abt this letter. I am sure he knew and he did not want to share it. Hence i say this author has agenda, and hence is no more than a politician. Hence does he deserve to be addressed garu? I think no.
Here is the link to the letter. Pls read it. you will know the wat we mean when we say emotional connect, Self respect.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Hyderabad_CM_Burgula_Views_about_merger
remember, if he wants to hide facts, he wouldn't have published ur comments. its as simple as that.
While it is a fact that Sri Burgula Ramakrishna Rao wrote the above letter expressing his reservations about the merger of the Telengana areas of Hyderabad state with Andhra state, people should, at the same time, mention his speech in the Assembly supporting the unification. Some how, people conveniently forget the other part of the same story.
If Sri Burgula Ramakrishna Rao was not convinced of the benefits of the unification, there would not have been a unification in the first place. As the Chief Minister of Hyderabad state, he had significant hold over the members of the Assembly which voted for the unification with a majority. If he had supported the dissidents of the unification – Sri K.V. Ranga Reddy, his nephew (or son-in-law) M. Chenna Reddy, and a few others, the unification would have stopped then and there itself. So, it must be said, again and again and again, in black and white, that Sri Burgula Ramakrishna Rao was a strong supporter of a united AP, irrespective of his initial reservations.
Sri M. Chenna Reddy violated rules during the 1967 (could be 68) elections and won. His opponent went to court and proved it. So, the court declared Sri M. Chenna Reddy's opponent as the winner. What does Mr. Chenna Reddy do? He thinks of Telengana and how it's people have been discriminated in that past 12 years. His uncle K.V. Ranga Reddy, who was still alive but inactive in politics, supported him. Many innocent students gave up their lives and many more lost one year of their education and valuable careers.
The same story is repeated again in 2001. KCR is not given his choice of ministry. He thinks of the injustice meted out Telengana and its people.
"The same story is repeated again in 2001. KCR is not given his choice of ministry. He thinks of the injustice meted out Telengana and its people"
So, AMRAO, wat would you do if your organization has not given a promotion to you and given it other person who is not as good as you are?
<<you would go to an other organization, which offers you the role, the pay and designation that your skill and experiance deserves>>
Wht would you do if you think, you have a good enough to start a new comnpany and be successful.
<< you would become an entraprenuear and start your own business>>
This kind of behaviour is common across all people. So, how is KCR different? stop this nonsense of he started telangana movement because he was not given caninet post. If he wanted cabinet post, he would have never regined from Union Cabinet post which by protocal is equal to CM post.
I think this put's bed to this silly argument.
There have been many instances in the history of India where politicians came out of a major party and started their own party. Some of them have been very successful. This includes Indira Gandhi. And I agree with you when you say there is nothing wrong in it.
But what M. Chenna Reddy did and KCR is doing right now is different. They have chosen a dangerous path of creating hatred among Indians against each other. M. Chenna Reddy knew where to end it. If KCR had demanded a special package for Telengana or a separate state with out having to make the people of Coastal or Rayala Seema areas as villains, few people would have complained.
Today, there are many Americans with out jobs. But there are many Indians working with H1 or L1 or J1 visas. The Senators and Congressmen criticized the H1, L1 programs saying these programs take away American jobs. They criticized the Outsourcing model. But they are not resorting to creating hatred against Indians. Is it not easy for them to say Indians are taking away our jobs, Indians are the reason behind our joblessness and our hardships? If they do so, it is not hard to imagine the damage especially most Americans owning guns.
The kind of venom being spit against the people of the same state is unbelievable. The kind of intolerance existing in Telengana area is also scary. It makes one sad to know that this hatred campaign is spread to children as well.
It is estimated that there are 25 lakh people from Coastal and Seema areas living in Hyderabad. No one is willing to open their mouths to express their opinion. It is not hard to understand why. Every one saw what happenned to Mohan Babu's sons.
You say KCR has resigned from a cabinet post. In doing so, you think he has become a holy cow. Every one knows his stature and revenue has increased many fold after the resignation. I have first hand information that KCR and Harish Rao have blackmailed many builders in Hyderabad who are from Coastal and Seema areas and received huge ransoms.
AMRAO,
"If KCR had demanded a special package for Telengana or a separate state with out having to make the people of Coastal or Rayala Seema areas as villains, few people would have complained"
asking a special package for telangana and handing it over to seemandhra politicians to handle it would have been the most stupid thing to do. That is illogocal also. Now, coming to creating hatred and making seemandhra people as Villans is utter nonsense. It only prroves that you people have half knowledge and are mis informed.
1. KCR attack on andhra corporate junior college: It's an open secret that these colleges collect high fees and give recipts for half the amount to negate tax. So is attacking these colleges attacking all seemandhra people.
2. "Telangana wale jaago, Andhrawale Bhago" . In the same speech KCR clearly mentions bhano to andhra people who have grabbed land and jobs in this region. Number might not proove as lot of people with illegal certificates are staying in telangana. Just go to villages near satupalli and khamam district, you will know the truth. Is this attacking all andhra people.
3. "hyderabad gurinchi matladithe naljalu kostham" was also said with respect to politiciand and cinema starts. listen to that speech. is attacking the politicians and cine starts, attacking andhra people.
4. Ban all andhra products: This was not given by KCR but by JAC.
For all that has happened, this movement has been a very peaceful one. There have been enormous number of peacefull protests. If some students have said something, its out of some in experaince and fire that exist in them.
Yes, I agree there were some silly attacks on andhra mess etc, these were not KCR or TRS given statements to attack. So wat hatred are u talking about.
" have first hand information that KCR and Harish Rao have blackmailed many builders in Hyderabad who are from Coastal and Seema areas and received huge ransoms."
You are 100% right. All the builders who have paid money to TRS and KCR have illegal dealings. If they were fair in their business, they would not have had to pay considering the clout of seemaandhra politicians. To run a movement of this kind, you need funds. Congress and TDP made enough money when in Govt, so wat TRS is doing is nothing different. If you have first hand information of these people demanding money, then definetely you would have known those builders illegal dealings.
In the first few weeks of this debate, many of us have realized that it is a futile effort but I guess we keep trying as we want the spread of lies to stop some where.
1. HYDERABAD: Congress Working Committee member K. Keshav Rao has said the demand for bifurcation of the State was being made for self-respect and self-governance and not due to backwardness of Telangana region
http://www.hindu.com/2010/04/03/stories/2010040354990900.htm
I am sure your answer to this would be that K. Keshav rao is a waste candidate or he is bought by Seemandhra politicians or some thing like that.
2. You say "Andhra corporate colleges collect high fees and give receipts for half the fee". Who the heck asked you to join them? They charge the same fee in Vijayawada, Nellore and Kurnool. They give receipts to half the amount any where. Of course, they are illegal. Every business in AP and in whole of India does it. Otherwise, why would the black money component in India be around 40% according some estimates? Are colleges run by people from Telengana clean? Nalla Malla Reddy group has 17 colleges. Are they clean?
Vasavi engineering college is owned by Pendekanti Venkata Subbaiah from Kurnool. Can you tell me if he is doing a help to Telengana areas by starting an Engineering college in Hyderabad in 1980s or this Seema goonda is sucking the blood of Telengana youth and their parents by starting the college?
Before these Chaitanya, Narayana, Kakatiya came to Hyderabad, I know many people from Hyderabad went to Nellore and Vijayawada for EAMCET coaching. When these people saw the demand from Hyderabad, it was natural for them to expand to Hyderabad.
I have attended Ramayya tution for IIT coaching. Does he charge less? And the joke is there are couple of buildings in Nallakunta area where people from Nellore, Vijayawada, and all other places come and stay to attend Ramayya's IIT coaching.
3. Who grabbed lands? Who have illegal dealings? Do you know that many of the Telengana builders have huge operations in Bangalore? Devender Reddy (ex Home Minister) has properties in Bangalore, Ravinder Reddy of Jana Priya have huge operations in Bangalore. Are you trying to tell me that Telengana builders like Ravinder Reddy of Jana Prinya, Prajay Engineers Syndicate, SMR builders, Legend Constructions, MyHome builder Rameshwar Rao are all clean? You may tell that to some dumb guy from Siddipet but not people who know the truth.
Just go and check in Chennai and Bangalore. There are many builders from Telengana as well as Seemandhra constructing huge complexes. These builders do the same business everywhere.
4. "Ban all andhra products". At least, you agreed that JAC was treating people of the same state as Britishers and asking their people to boycott products from other regions. How stupid? What is heartening to note is that people from Telengana just laughed at it. A few goondas gathered 100 items and it fire. As usual, all TVs covered it and thankfully it was the end of it.
5. Nama Nageswara Rao is from Khammam and is a TDP MP. He has a company called MadhuCon. They are constructing a huge thermal power plant close to Krishna patnam port in Nellore dist. The state government grabbed 200 acres of land from the poor people living there and allocated it to Nama Nageswara Rao's company. Is that an illegal dealing? Land grabbing? Should the Nellore politicians blackmail him?
6. You say there are peaceful protests. I am asking this question again.
It is estimated that there are 25 lakh people from Coastal and Seema areas living in Hyderabad. No one is willing to open their mouths to express their opinion. It is not hard to understand why. Every one saw what happenned to Mohan Babu's sons.
If there is so much of peace and every one can express their opinions so freely, why are these 25 lakh people suffering slilently?
The beauty of this letter is the clarity with which he articulates the feelings of telangana people, which clearly prooves that formation of Visalandhra was disaster waiting to happen. – We lived togother for 54 years without major issues until this blood thursty KCR started proviking the people of T and created hatred among people of Andhra Pradesh.
Mr. Kishore, u do not know me in person and if something looks funny u better reply there. and this is the last time i can tell you, mind your words…. I know when u guys do not have answer you will speak like this. I request Mr.Chakravarthy to please enable moderation to this blog and remove the kishore's comment
My apologies Satya garu. I deleted the offensive comment.
Mr sampath
First let me make it clear that The reason we are replying to you is becuase , i believe
this blog is being watched most interestingly by separatists and we want to send a clear
message to them decimating each and every point they put forward in TV debates. So the
replies are to TRS party , cadre and some misguided T supporters. One among them might be
you.
You said about burugula's views on merger. Chakravarthy garu mentions these things in the
book. He also clearly says that people singing the song of vishalandhra became separatists
after learning that Nehru was not so interested in vishanlandhra and SRC recommneded a
separate state. Chakravarthy also goes deep in understanding why Fazal Ali wanted only T
region to be separated? and not karnataka or maharashtra?The reasons are totally unclear
and we may never know the hidden agenda behind it. May be some muslim connection with this
decision.
Second thing is, you separatists always loose in debates because you people give statements
which are continuously self contradictory.
In Your own resource, Burugula says vishalandhra concept is a "long one" and had emotional
appeal. In your previous post u said vishalandhra conccept is not emotional!
Your harish Rao. KTR, whenever they speak on debates they always lie. They say vishalandhra
concept is not as old as Telangana. Look at Burugula's statement above.
smaller states: You guys conveniently say that T is a smaller state when you want to project
advantages. Again when somebody saysy smaller states have political instability and law and
order problems, you guys will turn and say …T is not a small state. You guys have
fantastic logic. Also as above blogger satya pointed out then why don u accept for SRC as
your argument for T shows a naional appeal! for smaller states.
self respect: You guys dont understand anything about it. Ur self respect should be hurt
when seemandhra people want to kick you out of AP and asks u to leave AP and form another
state OR if they say that they dont want T people (Like how u people insult them daily)Not
when they request u to be with them!…Please dont use this logic before SKC…he will never
consider this point also for your T state if u speak with this logic! SKC will be laughing.
You said fight will not stop until T is formed. This we all telugu people knows this. Its
like naxalite issue. They will keep fighting forever, govt of india knows it. infact always
trouble makers will be there in any country and all govts knows it. AS responsible citizens
like in any country, we will be resisting your efforts not to cause damage to innocent
people in the best interests of india and AP and telugu pride by ur actions. We very well
know that u guys will keep fighting for next 500 years also!!! Not a problem to us at all
and we r all prepared for it!!. You will tell your grand children that there is a region
called telangana. I will tell my grand children that there is nothing like that… So
simple.
@Sampath:
- I passed on your comments about APNRI website to the people managing the site.
- Please address me as Chakravarthy- no need for garu or Mr. I hope we can end that ridiculous topic.
- Now to the meat of your comments:
What selective sampling are you talking about? My fundamental argument is that it is the separatists that use selective samples. Regarding Nagarjunasagar and other issues- I have seen some of the videos that the separatists have put together. These are not objective studies, but are designed to incite people against each other. Similar videos can be made for Uttara Andhra and Seema districts too. My fundamental question is, since the formation of the state, how many extra hectares of land has come under canal irrigation and which region got what? That in my view is the best gauge to assess discrimination- and the numbers speak for themselves. I do not deny that there is extensive government neglect and mismanagement in irrigation. However it is the separatists that take advantage of government failures, which happened in all the regions, to further their agenda of hate. Despite constructing Sriram Sagar and Nagarjuna Sagar dams after the state formation, we’ve only managed to bring 3.3 lakh hectares of additional land under canal irrigation. 1.6 lakh hectares of these are in Nizam, 1.25 lakhs in Kosta, and 40,000 are in Seema. There may have been some irregularities, but certainly not at the scale to justify the kind of hysteria that is being built up.
- Burgula: Over 70% of the people’s representatives from Nizam Telangana supported the merger. In my view that is a more reasonable gauge for the people’s opinion, not a personal letter. So, the talk about that people desired separation for over 60 years, is utterly wrong. In fact, Marri Chenna Reddy was for an integrated State and so was Konda Laxman before they changed their tunes. The bonds between Telugu people of all regions were strong around that time. “Telugu Talli Biddalam, Telangana veerulam, maatrudesamukti koraku porusalpa kadilinaam” was a popular song in Nizam region during the feudal struggle. That Telugu Talli today became a bad word and is being pit against Telangana Talli. The man who fought all his life for Telangana, Raavi Narayan Reddy said- “Veera Telangana Naadhi – Veru Telanagana Kaadhu.” Kakatiya Rudradevudu, Rudramadevi, Prataparudrudu all died fighting in defense of a united Telugu country that they have painstakingly built.
- Small states: The more serious problem in India is with Central Government usurping powers from States for the longest time. The real issue is not creation of small States, but how to get Central Government to divest power to the States. In the current scenario, a large State will have more leverage at the Center than the smaller States. If you are really for local governance, Loksatta is already fighting for district governments.
@Chakravarthy
Selective Sample: I mean to say, you choose data that supports your argument. This might be case with some telangana writers, which dont deny. I say this because, if its as clear case like you put then, plannin commission of India in their report would talk abt discrimination in telangana. Govt of India rates 5 districts of telangana as backward as compared 2 from other region.
Burugula: My point was you were intentionally hiding facts that were of high significance to the post. Now coming to your logic, The fact that the CM did have a difference in opinion shows that voting of elected representatives is not clear indicator. Many of those representatives might have just voted because high command wanted it to happen. Communists never change their ideology once they have fixed with it. If communists ideology was visalandhra does not mean people they represent were in favour of that.Most important point of these MLA who voted then was they not elected on vishalandhra plank.
Nagarjun Sagar: You keep repeating the same line when issue of irrigation comes up. so you dont seem to understand our point. So here is our point of argument.
<<when Nagarjun Sagar was conceived between andhra and hyderabad states, there was an agreement between 2 states that leftbank and right bank canal would have equal allocation in water. when AP state was formed, allocation of left bank canal was reduced by some 40 TMC and allocation right bank increased correspondingly. this is clear case of discrimination. Because of this once a tribunal allocates water on existing usage principle, telangana lost out some 40 TMC of water. Some lakhs of acres loss good irrigation facilities. so chakravarthy, our point is if were not integrated into one state, we would have not got this raw deal. I hope u understand the argument. Then there is case for not allocating money for existing telangana projects, where as seemandhra projects got allocation.
Again. the point I am raising is telangana would have been better of as separate state then in AP. Thats the point. The issue is not has telangana developed in AP, the issue is telangana with good resources and well developed capital city would have developed and been better of than in AP. Unification was ok if all telangana people wanted it whole heartedly and without any stupid conditions. I think you understand the argument.
Unity of telugu: Telanagana people have developed distinct way of living under the Nizam rule, which is different from andhras. Once we culture evolves, then argument of kakatiya's and satavahanas does not exist. Realistically Chakravarthy, no one identifies themselves now with kakatiya and satavahana times (right or wrong is argument for another day, but this is reality). sadly, 60 years in AP people have not developed a commpn culture.So your argument of unity of telugu's does not cut ice. Another thing, a mere seperation of state does not extinct the telugu race. If that was case we would have been extinct some 100 years ago.
Small States: My point is we have not worked as big state in 60 years (i am sure you would agree with this). Leverage is not that has been working with AP, so why should we not divide?
- A good gauge for living standards is how much money are people earning. I sorted districts by per-capita Income and here are the lowest 10 income districts: Srikakulam, Vizianagaram, Cuddapah, Nizamabad, Warangal, Anantapur, Chittoor, Mahbubnagar, Adilabad, and Kurnool.
- Nagarjunasagar design was done prior to the State formation and the left canal design was done by the Hyderabad State engineers. Hyderabad proposal was incorporated as-it-is. Left and Right canals both have equal allocations of 132 TMC each. It is untrue that left canal gets 40 TMC less- I published numbers for 10 years of water released into each canal. I think your argument is about extending the left canal out to Kosta districts that are at the tail-end and allocating 32.25 TMC of the left canal water to Kosta. I do not know the reasons behind such an allocation. If there is an objective publication that talks about the reasons behind this, I will be happy to learn. The other issue is, how much of the left-canal water does the Kosta districts actually get, because areas that are at the tail-end don't get the water unless there are floods or surplus flows. This is the RTI request I wanted to make, but could not. If someone can do it, that would be a great piece of info to look into.
- Irrigation funds allocation. Based on what I've seen, I don't see any disproportionate spending by region. May be some projects are not getting the funds that are needed, but on a pure irrigation money spent by region, I don't see disproportionate spending. If you see something to the contrary, I am happy to learn. Between 1956-2000 nearly ten thousand crore rupees have been spent on irrigation. In Jalayagnam there is controversy about spending on specific projects, but again when it comes to total project spending, Nizam region got a fair share.
- Hyderabad State without Maratha and Kannada regions would have been half the size of the original State. Satellite districts of Hyderabad benefit immensely from the city being the capital of the entire State as investments from all three regions are concentrated in and around Hyderabad. It is suicidal to ask for division because it is Nizam Telangana that benefits from a thriving capital city of a large State.
- Most Telugu people wanted to unify prior to 1956. Telugus suffered discrimination under Tamil, Maratha, and the Nizams. Our history, our legacy, and our sufferings brought us together. There is a lot of evidence to indicate that Telugus overwhelmingly related to each other's suffering and wanted to unite prior to 1956.
- Common telugu culture exists and will continue to exist. There are regional variations even at the district level and that is something we should all celebrate and feel proud of, but not use as a means to fight. Cultural variations exist beween Adilabad and Karimnagar, Krishna and Srikakulam, Kurnool and Chittoor- that doesn't justify separation.
- All Telugu people lived under Nizam and Qutub Shahs for many years- including Seema, Kosta, and the current 10 Telangana districts, so the argument that- we were ruled by Nizam hence we are different- doesn't carry merit.
- It's not just A.P., but India did not work in the last 60 years. Our State suffered because of socialism, not because it is big. Post liberalization, A.P. grew faster than many other States in India. The current separatist movement will again put us back by several years, just like the two separatist movements of 1969-72 did.
1. Nagarjun Sagar- "Hyderabad proposal was incorporated as-it-is. Left and Right canals both have equal allocations of 132 TMC each" By saying the above you are contracdicting your own analysis. When the designs were conducted right bank and left bank canal had equal allocations of 132 TMC of water left bank canal (132 TMC water for telangana) and Right Bank (132 TMC water kosta). An agreement was also was signed in 1954. When the state was merged Right bank had allocation of 132 TMC water and left bank allocation reduced to 99.75 TMC water. This is accoring to you
http://www.myteluguroots.com/chapter_19_11.html
"The other issue is, how much of the left-canal water does the Kosta districts actually get, because areas that are at the tail-end don't get the water unless there are floods or surplus flows" Again this is false argument, the 32 TMC is again allocated water by tribunal so they will get every drop of it. Please dont try to hide facts. I am sure know about reducing allocation of 132 TMC to 99.75 TMC. This is undenaible case of Kosta discrimination.
2. I dont want to get into discussion of history of Telugu's, becuase you dont seem to understand the basis that if telgu wanted to stay united now, this agitation would not have taken this turn and you would not have written post on civil war. You dont seem accept this truth.
3. You say "India didn't work in last 60 years. This is most ridiculus argument. To Justify AP has not worked dont say India has not worked. India is still a very yound nation when u compare to other big countries. Add to that the diversity in my country, It makes it more difficult to progress, but progress we did.
AP was first state to be formed on Linguistic lines, Hence it would be fair to compare it with TN, Karnataka, Maharastra and Gujrat's of this country. But, the shame is we stand no wehere when compared to them.
3. "The current separatist movement will again put us back by several years, just like the two separatist movements of 1969-72 did." So you agree this is hampering development, so isn't it better for everyone if we divide and solve our problem. Don't you beleive in telugu's being developed.
Your arguments are just as baised as a politicians, I like some others before have prooven it here. I dont mind you having an opinion, but dont disguise this with chatter like telugu history, telugu unity. Makes no sense.
With this I rest my case.
Kishore garu- Please take a closer look at my tables. Left canal does indeed get 132 TMC. However, 32.25 TMC of that left canal water is awarded to Kosta and I think that is what your complaint is.
Yes, exactly!! Isn't this kosta discrimination, when they have signed that 132 TMC each of water wil be given two 2 regions. You never talk about this.
I've already said that I am opposed to Polavaram. RDS was mis-managed and that the government should've done a better job with Jurala to help Mahabubnagar farmers. However, these are issues that should be sorted out through a democratic process.
If someone can point me to an objective report on Kosta robbery of NS left canal water at the expense of Nizam districts, I am more than happy to admit that it is wrong too.
Apparently a lot of these details are in "Report of the COPP Irrigation and Power Team on Nagarjunasagar, 1960". If someone can get a copy, that would be very revealing.
Chakrvarthy,
As I have said before, I do not agree with Percapita Income as right indicator to gauge the living standards as few very rich people in one region will show good results on this point. But, Its a econmic indicator, byr, beacuse of hyderabad, Nalgonda, ranga reddy and medak are not shown. It does not reflect propsperity of the people in these districts. The tandoor belt of Rangareddy is one of the poorest in the country, yet this is not reflected in percapita income.
I dont agree with your nagarjuna sagar explanation. The facts clearly shows telangana got raw deal beacuse of merger. You will never agree with me, but how can so many chief engineer be lying. Lets not talk of jalayagnam, Not one project is still completed and on wat basis can godavari water be diverted to krishna districts. Dont u think this is injustice.
If your arguments on telugu unity are rights, telangana movement would not be a have come at all. People like KCR would have never won an election at all. Dont u think so. I cant say more than this.
@chandra
I am no KCR. Harish or KTR. but as telanagana person, I can answer your arguments.
1. Chakravarthy arguments as i have said ealier, is no golden truth. So there is no point in discussing his views. My point is he has very baised views like KCR, Harish etc. Like a normal politician.
2.Burgulla talks about Vishalandra in 1956 ( He is right, this thing existed since 1930's) harish and KCR talk about Samikya andhra and notion started in 2001. You should understand after after AP state formation, there was also a Jai andhra agitation, hence KCR< harish say that samikya andhra is new slogan. I think this clearly answers your question.
3. smaller states: when people talk abt smaller states, people talk abt goa, jahrkand which have political instability, wat we say is we are much bigger than them. telangana will be 14 biggest state in India. But the argument of political instability is not common to small states. Not long ago there was political instability in karnataka, Hence your argument of political instability is absurd in the first place.
4. Self Respect: You make another absurd argument. We say you are cheating us promising for votes. i can understand your self respect when when you people are asked to leave. but, point is if that self respect existed in you, wouldn't u people leave. Hence in when self respect does not exist in you, then where is the question of it being hurt . Hence in your own words you have made your own argument absurd.(I am sorry if the above sentence hurt the sentiments of my andhra freinds, but the blogger question made me respond like that)
5. If you dont tell your grand children telangana existed, he will know it from his friends. I am sure his telangana friends will make him also to fight for telangana. That would not be bad isn't it?
@sampath, u have given the funniest answer in ur point 3. when Gandhiji lost self respect in south africa he didnt leave that place. he fought for it there only.
again, i am not comparing ourselves, or politicians with gandhiji. just saying what people do when they lost. also courts are there to protect one's self respect. otherwise all the dalits and other down trodden would have left this country longback. I hope u got it.,
@Sampath
On the Backwardness of Only telangana districts:
Planning commission identified backward districts within a State on the basis of an index of backwardness comprising three parameters with equal weights to each
(i) value of output per agricultural worker;
(ii) agriculture wage rate;
(iii) percentage of SC/ST population of the districts.
With this in mind let us look at the backwardness of the districts in AP and diagnose if there is any discrimination.
Firstly I could only find 5 districts in AP identified by planning commision at http://pbplanning.gov.in/pdf/rsvy.pdf
1.Adilabad
2.Warangal
3.Chittor
4.Mahbubnagar
5.Vizianagaram
So agreed, that telangana has a good share of backwardness.
But out of 5, 2 are also from costa/seema. I don't know from where, you got that 5 are from telangana
and only 2 are costa/seema.
Now, we look at the districts and also the criterion
Adilabad and Warangal districts have nearly 35.28% and 31.09 of SC/ST population respectively which would have greatly influenced it's position in the list. They rank 2nd and 3rd in the list.
Check out http://ssa.ap.nic.in/Dist%20wise%20ALL%202001%20census.pdf
Khammam has the highest % of SC/STs – 43% but may be due to the nagarjuna sagar dam, value of output per agricultural worker and agriculture wage rate would have been higher so it could not secure it's position in the list.
While chittor and Vizianagaram have nearly 22.17% and 20.13 of SC/ST population respectively(ranking 10th and 17th in the list), still they are in the list indicating they had much worse "value of output per agricultural worker and agriculture wage rate" than the telangan districts.
In the first 5 places of higher % of SC/STs in AP, 4 are from telanagan and 1 from costa.
And this one from costa is in 4th place.
I hope that atleast you will not say that % of SC/STs is due to discrimination.
The point, I am trying to convey is that most planning commisions will take % of SC/STs as
important criteria in identifying backward regions and Telangana has exceptionally large bases of SC/STs and so is bound to have more districts in the backward list and I don't think, you can attribute this to discrimination.
And definitely, this is the true reason for backwardness of telangana.
Please note: I am not against SC/STs and not blaming them for anything here but just try to objectively find reasons of backwardness of telangana and I strongly feel they were pushed to backwardness by centuries(even millenia) of ill-treatment/poverty by other castes.
But definitely, it was not due to costa/seema discrimination or looting or lobbying etc..
If you notice the districts selected in other states, they also have high % of SC/STs.
You may argue that we would have increased the agriculture wage rate or value of output per agricultural worker but that will be too far strecthed and if you want, I will discuss in another post.
May be you should also look at Human poverty Index or Human development index issued by the govt of India to get a better pciture of backwardness/poverty etc.
@Sampath,
May be you need to look into more statistics to get wholistic picture of Backwardness, poverty and development.
Check this site
http://www.aponline.gov.in/Apportal/HumanDevelopmentReport2007/APHDR_2007_Chapter2.pdf
On human development index, 11 districts have less HDI than AP average.
They are as following with lowest HDI on top.
Mahabubnagar
Vizianagaram
Srikakulam
Kurnool
Anantapur
Nalgonda
Adilabad
Nizamabad
Warangal
Prakasam
Kadapa
Accepted that out of 11, 5 are from telangana, 6 from costa/seema.
If we look at the rankings. Mahabubnagar is having worst Human development but all all other districts of telangana are not that worse.
4 districts of seema/costa are immediately in line as worst districts, worse than those almost all districts telangana except mahabubnagar.
Also Human poverty index, following are those lower than the avg of AP.
Given from high poverty to low poverty.
Vizianagaram
Mahabubnagar
Srikakulam
Anantapur
Adilabad
Nalgonda
Visakhapatnam
Khammam
Medak
Kurnool
Prakasam
Warangal
Out of these 12 poverty stricken districts 6 are from telangana and 6 from costa/seema.
If we look at the first 5 most poverty districts – 2 from telangana and 3 from costa/seema. Other districts of telangana in middle order.. not so realitively poor and not so relatively richer.
What I am trying to say is that telangana is poor/backward, but seema and other parts of costa are also giving tough competition over there.
If we look at the history of all these regions, all of them have been poor and even much poorer before 1950’s and have been in poverty for centuries.
Adilabad have forest for most part and have 35% SC and ST’s where poverty/education is very very poor.
Srikakulam is also full of forests and backwardness since cenuturies
You cannot eradicate this poverty within 50 yrs that too with these corrupt politicians but we cannot blame it discrimination for it.
All the maratha and kannadiga districts of erstwhile hyderbad state are now much poorer than than our telangana districts.
Check out the stats about them in internet.
At the Outset if we look at all districts in erstwhile hyderbad state, except hyderabad, all other districts were in utter poverty, slavery, fuedlism etc… in 1950’s and same thing poverty continues to some extent even though slavery and high taxes are abolished and significant developemnt was done.
If a state was exploited for 200 years by nizam’s mal-ruling pushing it into utter poverty, how many years you think will it take to restore to normal conditions.
I believe 50 years is too short esp in india with the corruption in political and administration and I am sure, telangana politicians and adminstration are no better than the rest of AP.
"An estimate by Cambridge University historian Angus Maddison reveals that "India's share of the world income fell from 22.6% in 1700, comparable to Europe's share of 23.3%, to a low of 3.8% in 1952".[44]"
After all, India was also exploited us for 200 years by british and after 50 years of independence, still nearly 40% are under poverty according to latest estimate. I don't think, we constitute even 10% of world income now.
Bihar and Orissa have most poverty? Is there discrimination in india also?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India
Are the underdeveloped parts like bihar,orrisa, UP etc.. going to seperation from india saying discrimination.
No!!.. everyone knows the reason for their poverty is that they were much poorer before 1947. They had been poverty stricken for centuries and that is same with underdeveloped parts of telagnana, seema and even costa.
If you want to know the abject poverty of rural hyderabad state, read books on telangana peasent revolt you will know.
Why do you think 4000 paesents lost their lives fighting against the nizam and 6000 due to illness after fighting.
Read this book by a person who involved in the peasent revolt
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24077018/Telangana-Armed-Struggle-and-Its-Lessions
Outrightly, blaming that telangana’s backwardness is due to costa/seema exploitation is baseless and unwelcome!!..
@ Jagan
You have done a very good analysis. Must congratulate you on that. Here is my point in all that u analyzed.
1. Mahbubnagar, adilabad, warangal, looks to poor districts in Telangana. Now, these disctricts with abundant river flow cant be compared, anathapur, chittor, srikakulam, Vijanagaram. Inspite of having water, they are poor why? Think is not discrimination.
BTW if look at AP analysis, you will see that 4 districts beat every other districts by long margin in every other indicator, They are two godavari districts, krishna and guntur and still our new irrigation projects are aimed at them. That's the problem with AP.
Telangana being separate would have developed more. There is no case for argument on that.
I hav a qn here.. is water alone is sufficient enough to prosper? There can be x number of other things that are affecting these areas. ofcourse, water flowing is itself may not be a measure but how much of it can we make available for utilization is also another imp. thing. btw.. Adilabad is backward not because of ineffective utilization of water, but illiteracy and remotely distributed tribal areas is another big reason.
Btw..in srikakulam there are good no. of rivers like nagavali, vamsadhara, seeleru..
Good job Jagan!
In my opinion, telagana has reaped the most benefits in united AP and that may be due to the sympathy of being backward and also due to the strength of 40% in assembly and also importantly due to several agreements(even if they were not implemented exactly) and agitations.
But what about seema – It has found it's place in every place of backwardness, high poverty, low HDI
It lost it's capital to telangana, it is agricuturally poor as telangana and it's industrilization/companies cannot even be comparable with telangana's. All this, when most of CMs are from seema itself.
This is because most of the CM's just promoted their caste people(or factions) right from sanjiva reddy to YSR regardless of their region – telangana or costa or rayalaseema.
Don't you find YSR's followers in telagana and costa. NTR's/CBN's followers in Telangana/Seema.
If they just promoted their region, then the story would have been different.
Most of them did not care about the common people of all regions, even people of their supposedly own region.
They just did vote bank politics in the name of development. And this is true to whole of India and will true to telangana region also.
The only reason that seema was ingnored is that it has less strength than telangana; around 20% of assembly seats. It was always overshawed in the melodrama of telangana's seperatists hue and cry about every small thing and also by telangana's exclusive claim over backwardness and poverty and discrimination.
Recently one of the prolific blogger in support of telangana wrote that andrhites and telanganites fought mahabharat war on the opposite sides. You guessed it right – andhrites fought on kouravas side and telanganites on pandavas side. Therefore I may have to interject that Telangana struggle was more than 5000 years old.
This is how ridiculous this telangana movement gets into. How can you forget that the only significant social struggle in nizam telanagna that was suffering under the brutal atrocities of Nizam was done under the banner of andhra mahasabha?.
The state of Hyderabad with majority of the assembly voted for the unification of Nizam Telangana with Andhra to form Andhra Pradesh. As far as the gentlemen agreement, I can't think of any agreement where majority of the people sacrificed their rights for the the sake of minority, all in the name of unity, yet fulfill most of the terms of the agreement. Of course for some opportunistic leaders and egoistic intellectuals who enjoyed the benefits until the 11th hour and then raise the bogey of violations to perpetuate these special rights, it is their birth right to be pampered. This is the fundamental principle of separate T movement.
Coming back why hyderabad belongs to everyone – costa/seema/telangana
Here are some historical facts to your despair.
Except for brief period of time, during the peak of Vijaynagar rule(Sri Krishnadeva raya rule),the costal districts
were in the hands of Golkonda nawabs and there are records of the huge amounts of tribute they paid to Golkonda rulers.
Golkonda rulers always considered/wanted atleast costa as their own dominions along with telangana and were always looking for opputunites to annex them and they were successful except for some 20 years when Krishnadeva raya ruled.
Then came the mughals, who defeated golkonda rulers and subdued all other local rajas in costal/seema areas and
entrusted Nizam as governor in 1713 to govern these areas. I am sure, rajas of costal area must have paid tribute to Nizam
accepting their suzerainty.
Later Nizam and nawabs of kurnool declared independence from moguls but Nizam still ruled telangan/costa/seema and definitely collected taxes. Even the nawab of kurnool used to pay tributes to Nizams accepting their suzerainty.
Gradually the nawabs of kurnool lost prominence and seema came under the control of Nizam.
Later Nizam entrusted collection of tribute of costal areas to french in exchange for military aid and other favors.
It is on this context that the battle of bobbili has taken place with General bussy leading the french against the raja of
bobbili.
Later Nizam rented coastal areas to british over an array of treaties as the latter wanted control over ports for business reasons.
Read Nizam-British relations, 1724-1857 – By Sarojini Regani first published in 1968.
1) in 1766 1st treaty nizam gave away the northern circars to british,in return for payment of 9 lacs annually by the british to the nizam. The british also agreed to support the nizam with indefinite number of troops which he could use against any power.
Page 131 in the link below
http://books.google.com/books?id=9Fb26pWqhScC&pg=PA145&lpg=PA145&dq=treaties+signed+by+the+british+with+the+nizams&source=bl&ots=9T6Q1ln9_H&sig=RCLqpVJqd7rM9WtzbrFR6E1pCy4&hl=en&ei=2njPS7WENoXMsgOnup3vBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CBkQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false
2)in 1768, 2nd treaty was signed by the nizam with british, where the 9 lacs payment for the northern circars was reduced to 7 lakhs.Also the british had to pay 7 lakhs for Carnatic-Balaghat(which is the carnatic region below tungabadra; it includes today’s anantapur, kurnool districts).
Page 135 in the link given above
Guntur, as the personal estate of the Nizam’s brother Basalat Jang, was excepted during his lifetime under both treaties. He died in 1782, but it was not till 1788 that Guntur came under British
3)in 1788 nizam gave up guntur district to british in return for an annual tribute of rs 7 lakhs.
4) in 1798, nizam signed the subsidiary alliance treaty with british.
5) in 1800, nizam ceded the 4 districts of then kadapa, anathapur,
kurnool,bellary,in return for the payment for the maintainanace of the subsidiary force in hyderabad.
thus by 1802 coastal andhra and rayalasemma came under the rule of british , where as the telangana region remained with nizam.
6)in 1803 nizam signed another treaty with british, by which the forces of hyderabad,were placed at the disposal of british for any kind of emergency.
Finally, in 1823, the claims of the Nizam over the Northern Circars were bought outright by the Company, and they became a British possession.
Even during 1823 to 1947, britishers stationed at secunderabad gave protection to Nizam
whose expenses were met with the taxes/revenue of seema as per the treaty in the year 1800 AD.
In 1947,the nizam himself had filed a claim on costa/seema claiming that they were rented out to british by nizam and were actually his property.
Of course, Indian Union outrightly rejected his claim.
http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Circar.htm
http://hubpages.com/hub/Nizams-or-Asaf-Jahis
During all this period, of all the huge money/military-aid/protection that nizam got from costa/seema regions,
how much do you think was spent on the welfare/protection of costa/seema people. Almost nothing.
For every rupee collected from telangana by Golkonda nawabs or nizams during the entire history of nearly 500 years
I would say atleast an equal amount was collected from the costa/seema and added to that almost nothing of it was spent
in any form for the welfare/protection/administration of costa/seema.
Even in present history, almost all the development of AP was concentrated in and around hyderabad for the past 35 years
and costa/seema contributed in 2:1 ratio with Nizam telangana region.
All industries, companies, constrcutions, infrastructure… everything was constributed in more than 2:1 ratio
between costa/seema and Nizam telangana regions.
Also Hyderabad in 1956 ends where today’s Assembly is. Today’s Hyderabad is atleast 20 times more than that. Hyderabad in 1956 hardly has any jobs other than jobs related to Diwan and tax collection.
Today, Hyderabad is the biggest employment center in AP. Far more importantly; the costs of so called Nizam buildings were collected from Andhra revenues up until 1969. So, no telanganite can claim that Nizam buildings were built with only Telangana revenues as Andhra people paid their share. You can check Vasishta Bhargava commission report online for these details.
Please read the whole report and not just parts that may be support you.
Good work Jagan.. u hav collected very useful info. Thanks
@Sampath,
Before I delve into other topics, let me make something clear.
Hyderabad nee sottu emi kaadhu, Nizam telangana sottu antha kanna kaadu!!… Mark my words!!
I have proven it in my previous post.
Infact, every person in costa/seema has the same right on hyderabad as anyone else in Nizam telangana.
It is heights of ignorance/stupidity/arrogance that you or other seperatists may ask costa/seema people to leave hyderabad, even though it doesnot belong to you exclusively.
I don't know what right you have to ask others to leave and that is why people will not even care.
Why would a costa/seema person lose his self respect if he does not leave hyderabad because you asked them to?
It is acutally the other way round. Costa/seema people would lose self respect
if they leave hyderabad just because you asked them to. After all, they have atleast the same claim as Nizam telangana people on hyderabad.
May be, some seperatists will create some nuisance, but it will be suppressed with an iron fist if such a situation cocurs.
You must be thinking of whatever violences happened in 1969 or recent months – Keep in mind that they were tolerated only to appease the seperatists becuase the politicians made some mistakes with their vote bank politics but if attacks/violence on seema/andhra intensify, it will be an entirely different story.
So my dear friend, stop your nonsense about exclusive rights of telangana over hyderabad.
You will never get it. Be it moral fight or immoral fight.
Sampath,
Before I delve into other topics, let me make something clear.
Hyderabad nee sottu emi kaadhu, Nizam telangana sottu antha kanna kaadu!!… Mark my words!!
I have proven it in my previous post.
Infact, every person in costa/seema has the same right on hyderabad as anyone else in Nizam telangana.
It is heights of ignorance/stupidity/arrogance that you or other seperatists may ask costa/seema people to leave hyderabad, even though it doesnot belong to you exclusively.
I don't what right you have to ask others to leave and I am sure, no-one really cares about such silly comments.
Why would a costa/seema person lose his self respect if he does not leave hyderabad because you asked them to?
It is acutally the other way round. Costa/seema people would lose self respect, if they leave hyderabad just because you asked them to. After all, they have atleast the same claim as Nizam telangana people
on hyderabad.
May be, some seperatists will create some nuisance, but it will be suppressed with iron fist if such a situation cocurs.
You must be thinking of whatever violences happened in 1969 or recent months – Keep in mind that they were tolerated only to appease the seperatists becuase the politicians made some mistakes with their vote bank politics but if these attacks/violence on seema/andhra occur, it will be an entirely different story now.
So please don't day dream and do yourself a favor.
Ok you seem to be hurt for wat i have said, I have apologized there only and have also written because the blogger question was like that.
Regarding Hyderabad, is was and will always will be in telangana beacuse it is geographically located in centre of telangana. How much ever you shout that will not change. And as far as who it belongs to, As it is in India, everyone can stay there, but i stand to my point, Hyderabad cannot sustain without telangana.
Once telangana is formed, till a new capital for seemandhra is developed there should be equal sharing of its revenues. As for people like you who are staying there, you will still stay in hyderabad with it being capital of telangana if you waqnt to. otherwise you will leave. That's your right as an Indian citizen.
@Jagan,
Dont worry, you will stay in hyderabad, capital of telangana in the near future. Many telugu people are staying in madras, infact there number is more than seemandhra people in hyderabad. I am just preparing you to eventuality.
>Many telugu people are staying in madras, infact there number is more than seemandhra people in hyderabad
Happy to see the truth finally coming out. Telugus have no problem in Bangalore, no problem in Chennai. Problem is in their own capital Hyderabad.
Mr sampath,
You should understand the meanings of vishalandhra and samikyandhra . Infact vishalandhra has an appeal for a much larger telugu regions than what we have!. SO oviously samaikyandhra is included in that one. Burugula himself said vishalandhra concept was there way before 1956.
Any way,
all your arguments seems like an
unruly teenager.(My apologies if you are hurt, couldn't find any other word). After showing all the logical points if you guys are still crying about
injustice to T and Hyderabad issue, then that means we have successfully cornered the
separate telangana issue to a law and order problem. And once its a law and order
problem….authorities will deal with it in a totally different style. Hope these messages are going directly to TRS .Thanks for all your co operation!
<<then that means we have successfully cornered the
separate telangana issue to a law and order problem>>
The above statement clearly shows to everyone who have little idea of telangana movement, whose arguments are childish. If you think you have cornered the telangana sentiment with your argument, and if this makes you happy, Good for you.I have nothing to say.
PS: you can also write about how authorities will deal with the so called law and order problem, the it good for us. we can have nice hearty laugh
Sampath,
U still didn't get my point.
Why would I get hurt, if you/seperatist asked costa/seema people to leave hyderabad. This is really foolish.
What right you have to even ask or even suggest costa/seema people to leave. I am not talking of fundamental rights of India also. I wouldn't even go there. I want to talk on the same platform as you are.
I am talking of about the same financial right, which you think telangana has over hyderabad.
After all, hyderabad is not the exclusive property of telangana. It was built with the revenue of almost whole of present AP(inlcuding some maharastra/karnataka parts) for about 500 years now
I have given detailed view of transfer of funds from costa/seema region to hyderabad nawabs and nizams.
By the way, during the times of these muslim rulers, transfer of capital(revenue) was always one way and it is obvously from the smaller samsthanams in costa/seema/telangana to the Nizams/Nawabs accepting their suzerianity.
If someone doesn't, there will be war, killing, plundering, looting etc… and that was the fate of bobbili.
I have mentioned that costa/seema was made to pay for even the nizam buildings, rent and this is not rent as it was not a paltry amount.
If we look expendutire in hyderabad after 1956, costa/seema contributed in ratio 2:1 with telangana.
So there is no way of getting hurt/upset, just becuase some ignorant person has asked costa/seema people to leave. After all he doesnot have the right and claim to do so.
It is just like trying to tell convince someone out of his ignorance and if he is adamant, we will take it easy and let him learn the lession from his experience.
PS: I don't stay in hyderabad and I don't have a single penny invested in hyderabad and I don't really intend to settle in hyderabad also. But that doesnot mean, I will not talk justice.
A few observations
1) T sentiment existed in 1969 and petered out ..it exists now and is better managed but is petering out with occasional bursts . Its a bit like cricket mania during world cup at best or vulgar cyclical communal passions at worst. It is in the interests of telangana people , telugu people and the nation that this sentiment is wiped out of public agenda.
2) Telangana should be given for the sole reason that because at some point t people wanted is not the way India works. In 1960 TPS put up a stunning performance but people in telangana would have lauged against anyone hinting at separate telangana in 1983 where they were on the streets for telugu atmagauravam plan of NTR. At the minimum AP assembly should approve it.
3) There is no massive telangana vs integrationist agenda bearing high on peoples agenda. People always saw it as one among many with its importance diminishing apart from ocassional bursts.
4) T separatists movement is about sharing money and wealth and using threats of mob violence as their strenghts. We may have seen family disputes about money or business disputes but never has so degraded that the political agenda is about dividing money and not about serving poor (whatever maybe the corruption of an individual politician). This is a lowmark of AP politics.
5) Finally t separatists are extremely shortsighted and the confidence is very misplaced.
Sampath,
There are so many places like Delhi, Chandigarh, yanam.Goa which are geographically located in centre of other states. So Don't give this logic.
Even if take other states, according to your logic, mumbai belongs to only those districts around mumbai. Bangalore is at the border of AP – KN and also is nearer to seema region, so does it belong to seema region? I can give you ten more examples.
Don't again change stance that telangana was unit with hyderabad as capital for centuries – Even costa/seema were also part of Nizam/Golkonda nawab rule for most of the time and they even paid high amounts of tributes/taxes/revenues even though they got nothing out of it.
Even during 1823 to 1947, the secunderabad was maintained by the taxes from seema region according to the agreement in 1800 with Nizam by the british.
Regarding sustainability of hyderabad without telangana, like every other Union Territory, other other places like yanam, hyderabad will sustain itself.
May be be you are thinking, seperatists can do some blocking of water,rivers etc… — Keep in mind that all rivers/waters are property of Indian Union and will be utilised for the best interests of the country and definitely not a state/region.
In case you do it, then there will be Centre's interference, president rule etc… I am sure no politician/leader will want President's rule as their powers/influence will be curtailed.
Also that was how Bachawat tribunal gaves the shares of krishna/godavari waters across Maharastra, karnataka, AP.
Also my friend, there is no need to apologize for what you have said if that is what you really feel inside, unless you actually changed your stand that hyderabad belongs to all regions of AP – Economically since it's creation for 500 years.
There is no need to need to apologize as I am not hurt; I am just trying to cure someone of his delusions, false imagination.
You can say all that, you want. I am ready to listen and discuss
- If there is some truth, I will accept. But all lies, false accuses will be rejected.
@Sampath,
True that rivers flow thru these districts but that is not enough(though it is emotionally more appealing) –
actual factor is accessibility of water. A close analogy would be like the nominal heads of states with no administrative powers at all – Governor, President, Queen of England.
So when we think of the accessibility of water, the most important factor is the elevation of these districts. Given below are the elveations.
Mahbubnagar – 1,634 ft
Adilabad - 866 ft
Warangal – 991 ft
Let us look elevation of costal districts - Vijayawada – 39 ft, Visakhapatnam – 16 ft, Rajahmundry – 46 ft.
Seema districts: Anathapuram – 1099 ft, Chittoor – 1093 ft, Kurnool – 899 ft, Kadapa – 463 ft.
Geographically, telangana/seema are present on the deccan platue which is elevated, and like a
triangle tilted towards the bay of bengal and that is why rivers are flowing West to east.
Also deccan platue lands are basically semi arid to dry lands, rich in minerals(like coal, granite etc..)
Godavari and krishna deltas which are present in respective districts are basically alluvial soils
which are inherently more fertile and have more access to water as they are not elevated by more than 50ft.
In fact alluvial soils are formed by the rivers themselves thru millinia of sedimentation.
These low elevation alluvial areas are more prone to floods and everyone knows this.
So every region has it's advantages and disadvantages.
Coming to telangana districts, since they are at an average of 1000ft, the only effective ways of irrigation are tanks,
lift irrigation schemes. Both of them are minor and medium irrigations sectors respectively.
You cannot construct massive dams like Nagarjunasagar in most of the districts of telangana. Note, even your fav
nizam proposed it at nandikonda which is at the border of Nolgonda/Guntur district as Nalgonda is again at
elevation of 1381 ft.
Also it is not possible to send water upward to heights of above 1000 ft against gravity and that too
into other far reaching districts of karimnagar, warangal etc… as the dam was only around 450ft high.
Water will naturally flow downwards into low lying areas and sometimes will cause floods and who can they blame for then?
So let us take a look at the only effective ways of irrigation in telangana.
Tanks: Tanks are low cost, low maintenance, minor irrigation projects, which were historically maintained by local bodies.
After independence, more priority was given to major irrigation projects due to various reasons like returns on investment etc.. and minor projects were neglected all over india and even in costa/seema.
But since telangana mainly dependend on Tank irrigation, it was worst effected.
The irrigational structure Costa and telangana was different in that Costa was more convenient
for canal irrigation and tank irrigation was most convinient source for telangana.
I shud agree that, when the regions united, this difference of irrigational structure basically proved
disastrous for the telangana region as the minor irrigation projects lost prominence in AP and also in India.
This resposibility for this negligance is to be shared by all the regions of Costa/telangana/seema as seema is also significantly dependent on tank irrigation as it's landscape is somewhat similar to telangana.
Surprisingly, most number of CM are seema and still negligence of tanks. I am sure, in addition to returns on investment, this has to do something with corruption also like may be they can misuse more funds only for major irrigation project and in minor ones there is little scope for corruption, so all politicians conveniently neglected the minor irrigation works even across India.
After all, all these minor irrigation projects would not have cost much. I am not sure why govt is not taking steps even at this to stop this decline of tanks and why no one raises their voice.
I personally feel that the local bodies, MP. MLA's shud have fought for it. The farmers shud have agitated for it.
The telangana intelligentia shud have raised their concern/voice strongly over this.
To the contrary, no one has significantly raised any concern over this decline of tanks until recent demand for seperate state. Even now, only a few are aware of this issue.
Telangana were 40% of assembly, 40% of cabinet, many irrigation ministers from telangana, Telangana CMs for 11 years, but no-one has agitated against this decline of tanks. I am surprised, even the social/welfare orginazations never strongly said anything. I am sure, many of these people did not have knowledge or "oppurtunity" or "interests" to indentify/solve this problem in the first place.
Eveyone now, is going gaga over canal irrigation "injustices", which don't even suit telangana's/seema's landscape.
(FYI, Vengal rao, disputed/rejected telanganite CM, may have been born in srikakulam, but he suffered imprisonment twice during the Hyderabad liberation struggle in 1947-48, contested in 1952 hyderabad state elections but lost with 500 votes as he contested as independent but he got more than 40% votes, later he won as MLA in 1962, 67, 72, 78 elections with more than 20,000 majority from sattupalli constituency, Won as MP from khammam in 1984, 89 with 90,000 and 60,000 majority; He has established Kakatiya university, He removed naxalism to a great extent, rehabilitated a lot of them etc… He is much better telanganite than 99% of telanganites.)
http://parliamentofindia.nic.in/lsdeb/ls13/ses1/0425109901.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalagam_Vengala_Rao
http://www.telangana.com/Khammam/khm_poli.htm
http://books.google.com/books?id=pfAKljlCJq0C&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=tank+irrigation+in+telanagana&source=bl&ots=tR4cgn–M6&sig=H0emtEV-ksVQwCVCz3OIyQhtacA&hl=en&ei=GcHhS-yIE4bKNc3NtewC&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCgQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false
@Sampath,
The only other effective/possible way of irrigation in telangana esp due to it's high elevation, is lift irrigation.
Rivers in most of telangana districts are flowing, about 1000 feet below the average land's elevation level. So it is not accessible to them. It has been like that for centuries.
So lift irrigation is like scooping water out of river to a height of about 2000 ft and then distributing the water to agriculture lands.
So the this kind of irrigation is very expensive due to electricity problems of scooping the water and also due to distribition problems/conflicts. Also the return on investment is very low and sometimes even negative.
Also, we cannot have large scale projects, but we need to have large number of small scale projects or installments which will again add to expensiveness of irrigation method in terms of construction/maintenance.
An average LIS project can lift around 5 TMC of water; That is my best guess; You are free to correct me.
Devadula project – The claimed largest lift irrigation project in India can lift only 50 TMC at it's full strength; Phase – 1 was able to lift only 5 TMC now. Just compare it to nagarjuna sagar project which hold water of about 206 TMC.
With all this said about these lift irrigations projects, let us look into some facts.
As per the NABARD data, there are 1401 lift irrigation schemes financed by them across India. Out of these LIS, as many as 573 LIS are defunct.
So about 40% of projects were abandoned, and I beleive another significant % are progressing at snail pace. Why?
The reason are as given above – the return on investment is very low and sometimes even negative and lift irrigation is very expensive with many other problems also.
Although, I am not ardent supporter of Jalayagnam or YSR and I am not saying jalayagnam will be completed or successful.
But let us look at the Jalayagnam details just for the sake of just rough estimates of cost and benefits etc.
http://www.jalayagnam.org/index1.php?action=priority
Out of 26 projects planned in telangana, 13 are lift irrigation projects and they cover nearly 18 acreas of ayucut of the total of 29 lac.
Irrespective of whether they are really completed, the important point is lift irrigation is a major source of irrigation in telangana.
Also if we look at the cost, cost of irrigation in telangana is 55% of the total cost that too when the % of irigated area in telangana is just 35% of the total area.
This proves that lift irrigation is very expensive as compared to other irrigation schemes and justifies why about 40% of total LIS's went defunct and another significant number are moving at very slow pace.
Also lift irrigation will have high maintenance because of electricity and distrbution network
and thereby have very low returns on investment has been proved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_irrigation_scheme
@Sampath,
With all this said, even though rivers may flow thru mehboobnagar, adilabad, warangal – the water is inaccessible to those districts due to various reasons and any kind of mass irrigation scheme is very expensive with very low returns on investment. I don't think godavari flows thru adilabad.
Also to implement such expensive and low returns projects, you will need to be part of a bigger state like AP. It just doesn't make much sense to a smaller state.
So effectively these telangana districts are as good as those with no rivers flowing thru them like anathapur, chittor, Vizianagaram; After all what is the use of a river which flow thousands of feets below the avg cultivation land level. It is nearly inaccessible. It as good as not having it.
So stop saying these districts are backward even though rivers flow thru them, due to discrimination.
They have been backward to due to ST/SC concentrations and due to poor irrigation sources since centuries.
Dodavari districts, krishna and small parts of guntur have alluvial soils with natural supply of water since centuries/millinia. They are just at around an avg of 30 feet elevation. They are delta regions.
Britisher have just normalised/cemented/expanded this supply thru dowleswaram and prakasam barrages.
These districts are having a geographical advantage of fertile soil/natural supply of water – They are river delta regions. Since centuries, they were agriculturally and economically more developed than regions in the deccan platue – be it seema or telangana. I don't know how you can compare them with other districts.
Likewise costa people cannot complain, minerals are not found in coastal land or that they have more floods.
Read atleast some pages of this book for god's sake. Read about costa also not just telangana region.
http://books.google.com/books?id=pfAKljlCJq0C&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=tank+irrigation+in+telanagana&source=bl&ots=tR4cgn–M6&sig=H0emtEV-ksVQwCVCz3OIyQhtacA&hl=en&ei=GcHhS-yIE4bKNc3NtewC&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCgQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false
Nagarjuna sagar dam provides irrigation water to the Nalgonda District, Prakasam District, Khammam District, and Guntur District.
It does not provide water to Krishna and Godavari dists where previous barrages were constructed.
I will answer your question with counter questions.
If your neighbor is rich, and you are poor, will you not want help? - Or is it like just becuase your neighbor is rich, you can be ignored/allowed to starve.
Are Krishna dist people going to share their crop with guntur/prakasam districts just becuase they make more and all of them belong to the sam so called region.
Are people of one so called region going to share their property/income with poor poeple of the same region?
Just becuase a region is bit more developed, do they not have signifacant poverty at all?
Do all the poor people need to starve just becuase some people of their so called region have become wealthy/self-sufficient?
I want to make one thing clear
There is no strong regional feelings in the minds of the people esp. poor and middle class. They could be some affection between people of the same village/town and may be city but no region feelings as such. People may specify it occasionally only for identifying where exactly their hometown is in AP.
So it is not required to address development/poverty in terms of region. District-wise will be a wiser way addressing people and that is what normally happens in india and in AP also.
But just the politicians are addressing regions for vote bank politics and other corrupt purposes.
Even in college, we had groupism on the basis of cities they came from, caste but never region.
Even arranged marriages are not based on regions. It is based on only caste. My maternal grandmother is from Nalgonda and more than 60% of my relatives from Nalgonda district.
Also, on a different note, I don't know when people will stop attributing the gain of less than 10% people from costa/seema to the 90% of other costa/seema people who actually lost majority of modern industrialization and jobs to telangana districts in and around hyderabad.
So why don't we seperate?
It is simply because,
1) the seperation is very gruesome complex process involving assests, good will, liabilities, responsisbilites, telugu unity/pride etc.. Many don't think, it will solve any problems, it will just complicate them.
2)Hate/blame/loot propaganda which will incite telangana extremists to attack costa/seema people in interior districts of telangana much like in 1969 – hundreds of costa/seema women were raped in front of their kids and family on Jan 29th 1969. Some costa people were burnt alive and some telangana people were also burnt thinking that they were from costa.
No-one is ready to put all these 15 lacs costa seema people in interiors of telangana, in trouble at the mercy of some crazy extremists like hate mongering KCR and the likes.
3)This kind of blaming and hate will not smoothen seperation; It will only incite the other persons to resist as their self respect, moral values are being questioned. They will fight against the unjust blaming done on them. And mind you, costa/seema is not a weakling in any respect.
I can go on forever… but for now this is enough.
@sampath
Regarding your post to Satya, about your case for seperation
Firstly, state-wise per capita income of the states you talked about, in 2005-2006 are as below in rupees
AP - 26,211
TN - 29,958
Karnataka – 27,291
UP - 13,262
Bihar - 7875
MP - 15647
You want to compare AP with UP, bihar and MP where AP's per capita is nearly double/three times than them.
But you dont want to compare AP with TN, Karantaka even though the difference is less than Rs 4000 for TN and nearly Rs 1000 with karnataka.
I don't where you get your data, and how you do analysis. Do you outrightly think we are dumb? or that we are like seperatists who will blindly belive whatever … you say.
I personally think, AP has good rate of growth over the past 50 years.
Chennai/TamilNadu was centre of Bristish-administration/economy in the whole south india for 150 years of british rule, it had better administration than AP. Costa/seema lost chennai even though they had strong claim on it – both demographically and historically.
Chennai has better infrastrature, industries, economy etc than hyderabad.
AP, inspite of the hereditary backwardness of Nizam telangana, agitation over supposed development of other regions, other caste politics, other differences etc… and many other obstructions, we have progressed by a good measure.
This is definitely not due to CBN, YSR, NTR etc…although each CM and politicians could have some role.
It is due to the availability of water/mineral resoruces, people's effort to develop themselves, improve their life, earn big etc….
Definitely, we are not near Punjab, Gujrat or Haryana as they have different geographical advantages, unity, also were centres of development/business since british times.
AP is not a rich state nor a poor state, AP's per capita income is nearly same as per India's avg per capita income of 38,000 in 2009.
AP may have not done extremely well but it has developed considerably. And I would say good and it definitely worked with some gliches/patches here and there.
Spliting the state may increase per-capita income(as the other side of the mountain always seems greener), but concluding that based on your … analysis is out of the world.
I think all seperatists shud remember this.
Remember!!…Just becuase you want to show your love for your mother, there is no need to call another's mom, a whore!!..
To all those who talk about Hyderabad and it's status. please read India's great noble laurate Amrtya Sen has to say about cities.
"The cities are crown jewels of a region. The region sacrifices a lot to make their cities worthy of a cosmopolitan life, welcoming the immigrants. They give more resources, more power, more water to their cities so that they make it attractive for immigrants to come in, invest and live in their cities so that the immigrants, investors and the locals benefit from the prosperity the city brings. No matter how much the investors and immigrants contribute to the cities those cities are always part of the regions. The immigrants, no matter how large their population is, should not wean away the cities from regions by force. Cities do not live in isolation. They are attached to the region integrally"
Hyderabad if you people don't know is called Jewel of Deccan. Hence hyderabad will always be in Telangana. Just becuase some one has paid taxes does not mean they own the city. By saying we have paid money in city development, that you own is an illogical argument.
A city can be made separate unit, like union territory, only when people of the region/s around it voluntarily agree to such creation. Throughout the world, the cities continue to be the prized possession of their regions. Barcelona is pride of Catalonia, San Francisco is pride of California, and Kolkata is pride of West Bengal.
and "Hyderabad is the pride of Telangana"
Nobody can ever dent this. All the people who shout against this logic, really don't love hyderabad. They are more in love with ther roots in andhra.
@sampth,Could you give me the reference for above quote? Ok. as per what Amartya Sen, will you agree people that the aurangabad division,and gulbarga division of former hyderabad state have a claim over the city? how come only telangana region has their claim?
Btw.. it is telangana who got all the safe guarding agreements though they didnt lost anything. But the other two regions which are merged in karnataka and maharashtra doesn't get a single pie additionally though they lost their capital and all.
If you want to compare the progress of telangana, one more better gauge is to compare with the other regions which were left to karnataka and maharashtra.
Hello Sampath, could you please provide the source of the above statement.
@Sampath
"The cities are crown jewels of a region. The region sacrifices a lot to make their cities worthy of a cosmopolitan life, welcoming the immigrants. They give more resources, more power, more water to their cities so that they make it attractive for immigrants to come in, invest and live in their cities so that the immigrants, investors and the locals benefit from the prosperity the city brings. No matter how much the investors and immigrants contribute to the cities those cities are always part of the regions. The immigrants, no matter how large their population is, should not wean away the cities from regions by force. Cities do not live in isolation. They are attached to the region integrally"
My dear Amartya Sen didnt say that.Can you quote the book or paper it was taken from? That was a fictitious account written by our great friend Sujai in his blog. Read his comments. Telangana friends cannot put their minds together they often take recourse to somebody else's ideas that is the main problem. If at all the Telangana intellectuals and educated youth really ponder over the issue they will realize what the scoop is. FYI I'm a Telanganite and used to piggyback on articles written by Vidyasagar and Jayasankar.It was only after a deep thought process and objective assessment that I realized how bad Telangana state is for Telanganites. Please apply your mind and think for two minutes looking at the physiological map of Deccan plateau you will realize how foolish the idea of Telangana State is.
@Sampath,
That is what I am saying.
Costa/Seema/Telangana and some parts of Karnataka/Maharastra(to some extent) have sacrifised a lot, have spent a lot of revenue, effort and contributed a lot to hyderabad to make it what it is today.
You are just zooming in for your unfair advantage.
When amartya sen said region has sacrifised, he didnot mean the immediate region. He meant the region that the capital city represents, as a unit.
Clearly Hyderabad was the centre of, almost all of AP for the past 500 years intermittently, during golkonda rulers, Nizam(except for a period of 125 years when hyderabad got money, protection etc.. by selling off costa/seema), and post independence.
I re-iterate that costa/seema paid huge tributes/revenues for most part of 500 previous years and got almost nothing in return. Flow of capital/revenue was always one-way, from costa/seema people to hyderabad rulers.
And it is just that, you don't want to realize that Costa/seema played an equal role in making of today's hyderabad.
Even Amartya send would have the same thing as I said now.
Starting at 2:23 in the video, KCR accusing Dr. Jayaprakash Narayan as he came out with real facts and statistics in iNews, that in totality Guntur district is less developed than Mehboobnagar district. It is heights that KCR is scolding Dr. JP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY3_gCAOeQQ&feature=player_embedded
Dr. JP's disclosure of facts on real development. I am pasting one link which is one part of the video. Remaining 5 parts you can find on the side while watching this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B0OWFjPlK0
KCR is accusing Dr.JP sarcastically and I pasted this video in the above link. Dr. JP grilled into details of facts.
The blogger above has come up with a latest allegation that, because of samikyandhra the
musi river is polluted. Great!!…Very good!! This is the spirit i was expecting from
separatists in the last days.
Look at following news link about highest pollution topper in AP.
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/hyderabad/vizag-tops-pollution-table-229
It seems news papers reported heavy levels of groud water pollution i adilabad and alarming
ground water pollution in warangal! Again..please do not say that seemandhra industrialists
are polluting these distrcts! Please go through the below link about general ground water
pollution scenario in india.
http://www.nih.ernet.in/nih_rbis/india_information/ground%20water%20pollution.htm
(Hope separatists will not say, this is all because of seemandhra people!). Is this not because of industrialization without proper regulation? Do we have to write such a basic thing!(I also know that the blogger is aware of such a basic thing!)
This is becoming VERY funny. I am realy emabarssed as many of these
people come from my own karimangar! or nearby jagityal, metpaly or korutla.
Whatever bad happened in Telangana is because of samaikyandhra (pollution, traffic congestion etc). Even if a flower/fruit falls down from a tree , it is due to exploitation by other regions.
Whatever good happened in Telangana is due to Telangana movement. If you give credit to fellow telugus, self-respect of Telangana vaadis will be lost. Telangana could prospered like U.S if not for the merger.
Telangana could prospered like U.S if not for the merger. – Joke of the year. Wake up from your dreams and watch what JP said on iNews. Try to be ratioanal when making such comments.
Dear Readers and the author of this article,
The author did tried to portay Telangana is KCR / TRS and KCR/TRS is Telangana, and still claims he is from Telangana region, I don't see any logic in his portrayal. One most important point, many of the politicians used religion to gain the support of voters, but nowadays it is a for Chakravarthy type people to use religion to garner support from the readers especially those who oppose A or B. The author deliberately used the word Jihad for the attacks of those Muslim warlords who came in to India from Afghanistan mainly. I am sure before 9/11 this gentleman was not even aware of Muslims and before 9th Dec. 2009 he was not aware of the history of AP and Telangana (which even today he is not, he copied most of the stuff from the internet and rephrased the sentences) tried to portray the Muslim rulers as war mongers and Jihadis. I would like to make it clear for you Mr. Chakravarthy and those who love to spread hatred between the communities by using 'fake truths' from the history and quoting some isolated incident as the STANDARD PRACTISE of Muslim rulers in India in their rule of almost 1000 years. Your negative portrayal of Muslim rulers dividing the communities and inciting the hatred.
Concerning Telangana, it is the desire and wish of the people of the land a million Chakravrthys or any other Seemandhra realtors cannot stop from the formation of separate state of Telangana. You have your views Chakravarthy but you cannot add lies to your articles about TRS or KCR or Telangana or to the discriminations we have faced till date from 1st Nov. 1956. You have no right whatsoever to portray negative image of those people agitating for Telangana. Pls. refrain from doing so, you can propagate about the developmental work done in Telangana and ask the people of Telangana to stop fighting for Telangana but at the same time pls. don't forget to compare the developmental work done in Seemandhra by the same govts.
@Syed,
your first paragraph about jihad and muslim rulers and your immediate conclusions on what chakravarthy wrote is enough to avoid further discussion.
@SYED ABDULMUQTADIR , Why should we depend everything on governament? can't you work? didn't God give us equal opperunity to make a living? If you notice it is the Private institutions that are leading even in Coastal Andhra or rayalaseema in education. You think AP govt support those institution? no the intellegent people are supporting and bringing up those institutions. Syed there is no alternate for hard work. If we go with these politicians like KCR , Jagan or Raja Gopal, then we are foolish. To die for these …, If you notice no body in coastal supports Raja Gopal and coastal people do their own job and think of their families. that is their first priority that is why they are so prosperous in Andhra Pradesh, not because govt is doing some thing for them. If Telangana People do their own work not supporting … like KCR or Kodanadaram Reddy, they will be fine. By the way I am part Rayalaseema and part Telangana and has nothing to do with coastal, but facts are facts.
Mera Bharath Mahan – I am Indian first, then Telugu second. There is no third here.
Emi Sir …Monna Telangana vallu meru HYD lo book publish chestunte memalni bagayinchi bagayinchi kotaru anta kadha papam meru SPECTS kosam kindiki vangi vetukutunte kindha padesi mari kotaru anta kadha i saw the news in SAKSHI and ENNADU paper ….plz do make a note on tht also in your book….
Reply
JAI TELUGU TALLI …JAI SAMAIKYANDHRA…
Dear Chakravarthy garu,
Can u pls talk/discuss about if Telenaga state formed what are the loses if may happened and or What ever KCR & co telling about the Jobs, Water etc.
But its 100% Good for KCR Family
Best regards
Srinivas
Khammam
Wow that wwas unusual. I just wrote an incredibly long comment but after I cliked submit my comment didn’t appear.
Grrrr… well I’m not writing all that over
again. Anyways, just wanted to say famtastic blog!
Feel free to surf to my web-site :: pepper spray training army